Youtube lag

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-22, 21:11

I also have a problem that has been happening lately, on PM 8 - 9 and FF 10(I set it to delete everything, not even remember anything).
It's laggy to type while watching a video on Youtube, even pausing the video and/or stopping the download procedure doesn't help.

I disabled everything on FF10 and only kept Flash on (Add-ons and plugins), I am wondering if there is an option on the about:config I can enable/disable to stop lagging. Updated to the latest everything, so downgrade Flash? Flashblock on FF 10 Aurora, so it blocks the video, it doesn't stop the lagging.
This problem also affects IE, but not Chromium-Dragon, I was going to flame it against Flash.

You guys understand this more than I do. (This one is with 9.0 and add-ons/plugins enabled, just to see if something is wrong here.)

P.S. I am merely just looking for temporary fix. (I know that if it affects FF, it's Mozilla's problem to sort out)
Also, I haven't had any start-up crash, but I'll take cymroly's word for it.

Unread post by **satrow** » 2011-12-22, 21:44

megaman wrote:I also have a problem that has been happening lately, on PM 8 - 9 and FF 10(I set it to delete everything, not even remember anything).
It's laggy to type while watching a video on Youtube, even pausing the video and/or stopping the download procedure doesn't help.

I disabled everything on FF10 and only kept Flash on (Add-ons and plugins), I am wondering if there is an option on the about:config I can enable/disable to stop lagging. Updated to the latest everything, so downgrade Flash? Flashblock on FF 10 Aurora, so it blocks the video, it doesn't stop the lagging.
This problem also affects IE, but not Chromium-Dragon, I was going to flame it against Flash.

P.S. I am merely just looking for temporary fix. (I know that if it affects FF, it's Mozilla's problem to sort out)
Also, I haven't had any start-up crash, but I'll take cymroly's word for it.

It reads initially like a video hardware (turn off hardware acceleration in flash/FX/PM) getting stressed or possibly a background process interfering (study CPU tab in Taskman). What graphics card/chipset do you have?

I won't even pretend to understand anything in the about:memory page

but I will add that I see you have ghostery enabled - this caused me some little problems each time I used it, not an easy add-on to live with (IMO), but I'm not suggesting it's in any way involved with your lag.

I didn't get any startup crash with FX9 either, that's what Mozilla say the upgrade to 9.01 was a fix for.

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-22, 22:05

cymroly wrote: It reads initially like a video hardware (turn off hardware acceleration in flash/FX/PM) getting stressed or possibly a background process interfering (study CPU tab in Taskman). What graphics card/chipset do you have?

I won't even pretend to understand anything in the about:memory page but I will add that I see you have ghostery enabled - this caused me some little problems each time I used it, not an easy add-on to live with (IMO), but I'm not suggesting it's in any way involved with your lag.

I didn't get any startup crash with FX9 either, that's what Mozilla say the upgrade to 9.01 was a fix for.

I even tried with "Hardware Acceleration" off, to no avail. (I tried that before posting, even the add-ons disabled thing, except Flash to see the video.)
Background processes weren't impeding it, on many occasions nothing was using the CPU but PM and other few processes that wouldn't raise or consume CPU/RAM resources.(at least not much to say it would get in the way)
I have the ATI Mobility Radeon 3100.

Edit: Disabled everything, even Flash and it still lags, so it's the site some how.
Following from FF 10 Aurora, everything disabled. I think it's the new site that is messing something up, but if you guys don't come across the situation, it's something in my computer? Why would it work fine on Comodo Dragon and ChromePlus!(both based on Chromium)? (Yes, Google making their browser code compatible to their sites, no argument there) Once again, IE also has this lag problem when typing on the textbox.

Unread post by **Moonchild** » 2011-12-22, 22:29

It's probably a web design problem. You have to realize that Youtube is owned by Google now so if a web design "bug" isn't present on Chrome/Chromium/Comodo (also Chrome based) but it is on IE and Firefox, it may take a little for them to "fix" it, maybe even as long as it takes them to get a larger market share for Chrome - don't underestimate marketing strategies like that.

PS: about:memory is only specifically useful for memory allocation problems, NOT for lag issues or whatnot. No need to include it.

Unread post by **Moonchild** » 2011-12-22, 22:35

cymroly wrote:Each crash happened when PM was minimized and a full-screen application was running, I have my doubts as to whether either were due to problems within the PM/Mozilla code.

Sounds to me like it may be a video driver issue in that case - both Pale Moon and Flash use HW acceleration, if your full-screen application (I presume a game) would do something either too greedy or unorthodox with the graphics memory, it can cause this kind of crash.

Unread post by **Moonchild** » 2011-12-22, 22:47

Firefox 9.0.1 - I wonder if they will have another emergency point release before the year is out.
Seems to become a trend - silly Mozilla people not taking the time to test it widely enough with their carrousel.

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-22, 22:49

Moonchild wrote:It's probably a web design problem. You have to realize that Youtube is owned by Google now so if a web design "bug" isn't present on Chrome/Chromium/Comodo (also Chrome based) but it is on IE and Firefox, it may take a little for them to "fix" it, maybe even as long as it takes them to get a larger market share for Chrome - don't underestimate marketing strategies like that.

PS: about:memory is only specifically useful for memory allocation problems, NOT for lag issues or whatnot. No need to include it.

Off-topic: Of course, I am fully aware of that. Basically, I joined when it was owned by On2, good times.

On-topic: I simply placed it because I thought it was memory-based, good thing you cleared it up, I was going to take it against JavaScript for a bit there. Until a solution arrives, I will have to use Dragon to type in a response with a Chromium add-on for Firefox.

That 9.0.1 was out a day or 2 ago on their ftp site, planned in advance.

Unread post by **Moonchild** » 2011-12-22, 22:57

megaman wrote:That 9.0.1 was out a day or 2 ago on their ftp site, planned in advance.

Releases are always up on FTP before they are published. 9.0 was up on FTP a good number of days before published, too.

Unread post by **satrow** » 2011-12-22, 23:18

Moonchild wrote:
cymroly wrote:Each crash happened when PM was minimized and a full-screen application was running, I have my doubts as to whether either were due to problems within the PM/Mozilla code.
Sounds to me like it may be a video driver issue in that case - both Pale Moon and Flash use HW acceleration, if your full-screen application (I presume a game) would do something either too greedy or unorthodox with the graphics memory, it can cause this kind of crash.

That ties in; I'm still running a rush-release/beta from several weeks ago, I'll download the latest driver from AMD and do my usual force-install - no CCC for me, drivers only FTW!

Moonchild wrote:Firefox 9.0.1 - I wonder if they will have another emergency point release before the year is out.
Seems to become a trend - silly Mozilla people not taking the time to test it widely enough with their carrousel.

I was thinking exactly the same things.

EDIT: Oh dear, updating drivers only caused a new error to be logged: "MSDTC encountered an error (HR=0x80000171) ... " I think it means "shit, we failed report the change of drivers to M$FT". New drivers loaded, PM9 still running, I'll carry on browsing

Unread post by **satrow** » 2011-12-23, 01:06

Megaman, do you have the latest AMD/ATI drivers installed on the laptop? I seem to recall, though I may be mistaken, that there was some kind of Flash 11/driver fix incorporated around September time.

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-23, 01:24

cymroly wrote:Megaman, do you have the latest AMD/ATI drivers installed on the laptop? I seem to recall, though I may be mistaken, that there was some kind of Flash 11/driver fix incorporated around September time.

Yes, I recently told Moonchild that the CCC was holding back my on-board's potential, so I removed it. Once again, I am always updating constantly, so I am on 11.12 driver version on the card. But it was working fine before a few days ago, so it's a website coding error. If so, where do I get the fix? (Even with the Flash plugin disabled, I still came across the lag, so I don't know if it's Flash to blame. Maybe it's Java Script?)

Unread post by **satrow** » 2011-12-23, 02:22

Have you tried FX or PM from a new profile or in safe mode?

Another (slim - considering one browser works fine) possibility is that your A/V or wireless is adding to the complexity - but if nothing shows as using extra CPU %, it's hard to figure out.

Don't the Chrome-based browsers come supplied with Flash built-in? So there could be some variance with the versions you've installed manually for the other browsers.

You could check for DPC spikes caused by 'bad' drivers, that might be useful - dpclat (Win2K onwards): http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml and/or LatencyMon (Vista on): http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon - they were produced as diagnostic tools for problems while recording audio but work by checking the efficiency of all drivers.

If nothing shows up there, then Resource monitor (built-in to Windows) or Sysinternal's Process Monitor might help you figure it out: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... s/bb896653

But - it might just be some poor coding on the site.

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-23, 03:33

cymroly wrote:Have you tried FX or PM from a new profile or in safe mode?

Another (slim - considering one browser works fine) possibility is that your A/V or wireless is adding to the complexity - but if nothing shows as using extra CPU %, it's hard to figure out.

Don't the Chrome-based browsers come supplied with Flash built-in? So there could be some variance with the versions you've installed manually for the other browsers.

You could check for DPC spikes caused by 'bad' drivers, that might be useful - dpclat (Win2K onwards): http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml and/or LatencyMon (Vista on): http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon - they were produced as diagnostic tools for problems while recording audio but work by checking the efficiency of all drivers.

If nothing shows up there, then Resource monitor (built-in to Windows) or Sysinternal's Process Monitor might help you figure it out: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... s/bb896653

But - it might just be some poor coding on the site.

Right right, Rookie mistake, I forgot to try SafeMode. It works fine there. (Now to find what is disabled that prevents this problem) A New Profile still was lagging me.

On those programs, the CPU, Page File, Network were at fault somewhere, yet it's not very direct to what's exactly being the problem, just assumptions. The problem is the interface, it acts like it's reloading while I am typing and it tends to cut off what I type. (It's bad enough that it's lagging behind my typing.)

Next, I'll will do a full maintenance clean of the computer. I tried a new User Account but it's the same thing. If nothing else tends to work I will simply restart Windows 7, I've been itching to restart it anyways.

Unread post by **satrow** » 2011-12-23, 04:04

It feels like Flash could be the miscreant here; remove it and all preferences, cookies and *.sol files completely, reboot and then reinstall it.

EDIT: assuming you can run LatencyMon, check the info in the Drivers and Processes tabs, you should be able to see the top 2 causing high pagefaults, ISR and DPC counts. HAL.dll can be ignored, it has to work pretty hard, also ignore anything loaded by LatencyMon. Just a screenshot of the Main tab would help.

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-23, 05:33

cymroly wrote:It feels like Flash could be the miscreant here; remove it and all preferences, cookies and *.sol files completely, reboot and then reinstall it.

EDIT: assuming you can run LatencyMon, check the info in the Drivers and Processes tabs, you should be able to see the top 2 causing high pagefaults, ISR and DPC counts. HAL.dll can be ignored, it has to work pretty hard, also ignore anything loaded by LatencyMon. Just a screenshot of the Main tab would help.

3 Hard pagefaults
latmon.exe as 7
plugin-container.exe as 4
ascservice.exe 1

P.S. I need to set time aside to understand this stuff.
Also, I don't have problems with some flash sites and some of those hog up the CPU like a mad-program, yet the Youtube text box still lags when typing, even when it's just Youtube's site alone on one tab. It was working fine on 8.0.2 a week before, which leaves me wondering what I did that could have made it go wrong.

And no, I am not like those users that yell "Please help me!" If there is a solution I am anticipated to hear it, no rush.

Edit: Tried again with FF10 Aurora, made a new Profile and started it with Safe Mode and still laggy upon typing. I'll have to make a video, unless you guys understand what I mean.

Unread post by **Moonchild** » 2011-12-23, 08:25

Moderation Note: I've split this topic off and moved it to community support since it's not really a beta issue and was cluttering up the thread

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-27, 15:57

Solution has been found.
Thanks for the support, cymroly, it means a lot to try and help. I was introduced to new programs I wasn't aware of, which is good. (Except Process Monitor)

Long story: I previously mentioned that it was laggy to type on Firefox and Pale Moon, and it also was laggy on IE, but not Chromium-based.

My assumption needed some testing and I found that Opera didn't lag either, so it couldn't just be Flash. Testing 2 days ago and the lag was gone on IE, nothing was changed in the settings, it just wasn't laggy when I typed. FF and Pale Moon still had this issue, I am afraid.

So, I began taking it on my hardware and also think that the problem was with Flash UI but not with the videos, the videos didn't lag at all, they never did.

The craziest thing happened was that K-Meleon didn't lag either and it's based on Gecko, so it couldn't be Gecko, nor Flash in its entirety, so it had to be some graphic settings. (Disabling Hardware Acceleration when available didn't help, which is odd)

Short story: Changing gfx.direct2d.disabled to true made the lag minimize to a point where it's not a bother, it's still there but hardly enough to say it's a problem. Unless I press all the keyboard keys wildly, it's noticeable, but typing normally won't be noticeable.

Unread post by **satrow** » 2011-12-28, 02:20

So your problem may have been the hardware/drivers? Try installing the latest version of DirectX http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=35 even if your version of Windows comes with a later version of DirectX, this should add greater compatibility. If that doesn't help (after you've redone the gfx.direct2d.disabled thing), it could be a driver/gfx card problem (like the gfx doesn't "fully" support what's being asked of it by the software).

I didn't see any big problem in your earlier data - but that's totally dependent on what the PC was doing at that time (and I can only guess at that). I'd check with Malwarebytes and TDSSkiller just to be sure that you're clean.

megaman · Unread post by **megaman** » 2011-12-28, 02:56

I'll have to say that it couldn't be a malware, I am very paranoid when it comes to viruses and the like. Emsisoft Anti-Malware and avast! at my arsenal.

Also, I update to the fullest, my daily ritual is to update every piece of software in my computer.

Times change, so I will double-check Malwarebytes, new to TDSSkiller.

TDSSkiller doesn't detect anything.
The message states that I have newer version or latest of DirectX.
Once again, IE, Opera, K-Meleon, Chromium-based (Dragon and ChromePlus!) browsers don't come across this problem, I will also try Safari later tonight.

I'll reply with the results from Malwarebytes later.

Unread post by **satrow** » 2011-12-28, 03:28

Ignore the message about having a later version of DX - it will upgrade (ensure backwards compatibility) your DirectX

A quick scan with Mbam is usually enough; if you're not familiar with the output from TDSKiller, post the result here?

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