Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

[vannilla]

Off-topic:
I might be out of the loop, but isn't 4chan the definition of the sewer of the internet? Only racism, trolling, hatespeech, conspiracy theories, tentacles and porn are to be found there. Why would anyone even open that site is beyond me.

Off-topic:
I go there to talk about bidimensional women. It's seriously the only place where you do not get people trying to make everything about themselves, "community censorship" (when a group of users try to shut you down even if you are within the rules of the place so it's not an issue started by moderators), creeps trying to have dubious relationships with minors and other stuff like that. It seems strange, but that's what you will experience if you go in large communities on, say, Discord, or whatever is popular nowadays. At least on imageboards they get called out for what they are, if they attempt it.

[andyprough]

TheRegister tech news has a story up about this Cloudflare blocking of Pale Moon and other browsers today - https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/04/ ... _browsers/

It would be good if any Pale Moon forum readers left comments on the article in TheRegister's comment section. More comments shows a higher degree of reader interaction with the story and will show that there's a certain level of public concern about Cloudflare's actions.

Good job @back2themoon writing that original Hacker News post which features prominently in this article. I don't know if it's ever appropriate to write Update posts on Hacker News on different issues, but if so then this issue would seem worthy of a second post.

[back2themoon]

And many thanks to you andyprough, for making The Register article happen. We should all expose Cloudflare there too, in a clear and civilized way.

As for updated posts on Hacker News and elsewhere... I think users have limited leverage and we tried all we can, mostly. Perhaps it is time for Moonchild and the team to step up and push their side of the story for as widespread publication as possible. CF are ignoring them anyway. Ignoring the media won't be that easy though.

Publish the story with all its nasty, gory details: technical, financial, ethical, historical, political etc. Only the developers can do this.

[Moonchild]

Perhaps it is time for Moonchild and the team to step up and push their side of the story for as widespread publication as possible. CF are ignoring them anyway. Ignoring the media won't be that easy though.

Publish the story with all its nasty, gory details: technical, financial, ethical, historical, political etc. Only the developers can do this.

There are a few snags with that, of course. First, where to publish it in a broadly accessible and discoverable way, that can't easily be "forced off" or buried by non-coverage? There's a good chance it'll be seen as "angry old man shouts at clouds" material.
Second, how would publishing all the gory details impact any hope of reparations, or even leverage? I mean, I get that in a perfect world this would trigger some kind of remorse in bad actors, but I don't think that is the world we live in, and it would definitely be used as ammo against me anywhere possible (we've seen that plenty already when it comes to Pale Moon, in the past...). I'd rather be sure I'm not kicking in my own windows before I'd do that.

[back2themoon]

Ok, understood. You could stick to the technical facts, and perhaps only hint at the rest. Or don't hint.

All I'm saying is that "Development Team" is more likely to be heard than: single user(s), angry old man etc. My suggestion was about contacting the media (for them to publish), not contacting CF or self-publishing it (adding it in a special, visible section on the main page wouldn't hurt I guess).

[Kris_88]

Publish the story with all its nasty, gory details: technical, financial, ethical, historical, political etc.

Off-topic:
Oh, yeah...
I tried, though on a different issue on this forum.
I remember I was shut up very quickly.
I wonder how much some people here will be offended if I say that this is karma?

[back2themoon]

Off-topic:

I wonder how much some people here will be offended if I say that this is karma?

Zero people, because you are comparing completely different, irrelevant situations. Please don't continue this here.

[Kris_88]

Off-topic:

Please don't continue this here.

They (cloudflare) will tell you the same thing...

[Nuck-TH]

Off-topic:
They (cloudflare) will tell you the same thing...

The goal is to raise public attention to the discussed issue, not call to Coludflare's conscience, or whatever they have instead of it.

[andyprough]

Off-topic:

Coludflare's conscience, or whatever they have instead of it.

Enormous piles of cash.

[Kris_88]

The goal is to raise public attention to the discussed issue, not call to Coludflare's conscience,

If I were the developers, I would focus on figuring out what "TypeError: k[l] is undefined" is. There are indirect debugging methods, and it's not at all necessary to fully understand and parse their entire script to figure out what the problem is.

[andyprough]

Anyone reading this, if you haven't read and left a comment on the article on Cloudflare's bad behavior against Pale Moon and other non-Chrome browsers yet today, please do so if you can: https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/04/ ... _browsers/

It would be good to get more comments on that article and for it to go a bit "viral", if you see what I mean. Also, if you have a twitter or mastodon or facebook or bluesky or truth social account, it would be good to post a comment linking to TheRegister's article if possible.

[BenFenner]

Off-topic:

I might be out of the loop, but isn't 4chan the definition of the sewer of the internet? Only racism, trolling, hatespeech, conspiracy theories, tentacles and porn are to be found there. Why would anyone even open that site is beyond me.

Yes, you are out of the loop. As a regular user since 2006 I can say you're describing a sub-set of the website's content. The overwhelming majority of the available sections, content, and users are not as you describe.

[suzyne]

Made my first comment ever on The Register.

As a new person I guess it is moderated, because I can't see it yet! But I hope what said will help contribute to a better outcome for Pale Moon and the wider internet!

[andyprough]

Made my first comment ever on The Register.

As a new person I guess it is moderated, because I can't see it yet! But I hope what said will help contribute to a better outcome for Pale Moon and the wider internet!

Excellent! I think that TheRegister's moderators stop looking at new comments in the evening and don't start allowing them through until the following morning, similar to what Ghacks does with comments. I also haven't commented on TheRegister in a number of years, but it seems that this is the way they do moderation. So hopefully your comment will show up tomorrow.

Now that you have a log-in, one good way to add to the amount of public engagement on the article is to go through and upvote and downvote the different comments from other people.

The viral effect is happening - lots of sites linking to the article:

2025-03-05_00-01.jpg

----

I'm glad to see all these links and additional discussions on other sites. For example, this discussion on a site called lemmy.world about TheRegister's article and about Cloudflare abusing users has got a lot of interesting data: https://lemmy.world/post/26330554

[Moonchild]

The viral effect is happening

Well, guess what? Suddenly now there was outreach by CloudFlare in the form of one of the senior product managers (Michael Tremante - overseeing the teams responsible for turnstile and captcha challenges) contacting me through the forum here to talk (asking to set up a meeting with the dev team and such). Isn't it remarkable how getting media coverage gets things moving?...
I immediately indicated the urgency of the matter to him; not going to take the slow road here of setting up a meeting and then going through the slow dev pipeline before the discrimination stops...

[darkarts]

Well, guess what? Suddenly now there was outreach by CloudFlare

Excellent news - let's all hope that something positive comes from it. And of course big thanks to Andy Prough for getting this story the attention it deserves and thus triggering this sudden sense of co-operation from Cloudflare.

[Frugal]

Made my first comment ever on The Register.

As a new person I guess it is moderated, because I can't see it yet!

I think delay is because El Reg moderation is sometimes just a bit bursty. I posted late ydy (UK time) and it appeared in 10 min. This morning another post took over an hour.

Anyway, great first post Susan & you got an up vote from me (IW).

[BenFenner]

Suddenly now there was outreach by CloudFlare

Great news!

(After the dust settles, see if they will acknowledge and/or fix the issue that caused your initial comms to get thrown in the trash can.)

[Gemmaugr]

Suddenly now there was outreach by CloudFlare

Great news!

(After the dust settles, see if they will acknowledge and/or fix the issue that caused your initial comms to get thrown in the trash can.)

Seconded.

I was just about to post a musing in regards to how one could most politely phrase that this wouldn't have become so public had they done their job a month ago, or during anytime after that, at our increasing attempts to highlight this. And that they need to look over their moderators and approach to their cloudflare community and sub-reddit.