Can't install v33.4.1 on Win 10 Build 17763.6414

[hermit]

Operating system: Windows 10 version 1809 Build 17763.6414
Browser version: Pale Moon v33.4.1
32-bit or 64-bit browser?: 64-bit
Problem URL: n/a.
Browser theme (if not default): n/a.
Installed add-ons: none. I also tested a clean/fresh installation.
Installed plugins: (about:plugins): none. I tested a clean/fresh installation.

If possible, please include the output of help->troubleshooting information (as text):
Error msg. from installer:
Sorry, Pale Moon can't be installed. This version of Pale Moon
requires a processor with AVX support.

**PASTE troubleshooting information here**

Dear Moonchild, dear all.

I've attempted to install the newest Pale Moon release v33.4.1 (2024-11-05).

Well…
The AVX check really fails on Windows 10 version 1809 Build 17763.6414. (CPU: Intel i7-6800K, i7-4790K, i7-2600K, Xeon E5-2666v3, Xeon E5-1620 and others)
This prevents installation on our Windows computers…

Me
my wife
my friend Klaus
my dear friend Lutz (he lives near Umeå! )
my sister
all of us now feel a bit lost. :-/

Could someone implement a command line switch (for the installer) to bypass the faulty AVX-check?
Does anyone have some suggestions?

Kind regards
Michael

[Moonchild]

Have you read the release notes?

You can use the .7z archives to extract and run the browser on your version of Windows 10.
Since I'm assuming your collection of computers already had Pale Moon installed, you can also use the internal updater to update (the check is only inside the installer)... Why aren't you updating from within the browser itself?

By the way: Windows 10 r 1809 has not had any updates since its end-of-support Nov 10th 2020, 4 years ago. You really should consider running the latest version.

[Nelraen]

1809 also denotes the LTSC build that is actually still supported and gets patches currently.

E.g:
2024-10 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1809 for x64-based Systems (KB5044277)

Mind you, this is the odd-one-out of the LTSC builds that still had the full IIRC 10 year support for (IoT?) Enterprise versions (January 9, 2029). All subsequent versions had shorter.

Edit: tried finding the official page besides wikipedia, but MS seems to have already removed that particular page. Anyways, yeah, 1809 still receives updates, if you are on THAT exact particular version.

[Moonchild]

Look, I'm sorry if this impacts you. As with many things Pale Moon this is a compromise. I'll try to selectively disable the check on older service releases of Windows 10 if I can, but it'll have to be able to be done natively in NSIS - I'm thinking it should be possible since it's possible to inspect the registry. This check was added primarily for less-informed users trying to install Pale Moon on old machines - instead of giving them a non-working browser after successful installation, it's more informative to tell them what's wrong straight away.
I'm assuming you know what you are doing if you're running a specific Enterprise version or have chosen explicitly to run an EoL Home/Pro version of Windows 10, and as such can deal with using the .7z extract update/install method (as opposed to running the installer). I'd already gone out of my way to make sure the internal updater handles the wide range of hardware gracefully, and I didn't even think of someone using the installer to update instead (which seems to be the case here). I added the note about old Windows 10 potentially failing to the release notes for good reason.
As to the remark about IoT versions: IoT versions of the O.S. aren't meant for desktop use so would be outside of the target scope for desktop applications like Pale Moon, to begin with, so I'm not sure if it should even be considered in this case. This is similar to people extending the life of Windows XP in the past by using embedded PoS versions instead that would receive (limited) updates for a longer time.

So yes, it's not perfect, but a compromise to cover the vast majority of users.

[xuuxou333]

The same issue occurs on Windows 10 64-bit LTSC 21H2 for non-AVX processors.
Tried both 7z archives and the exe installer.

[jobbautista9]

The same issue occurs on Windows 10 64-bit LTSC 21H2 for non-AVX processors.
Tried both 7z archives and the exe installer.

This is expected. We've made AVX a minimum requirement for the official 64-bit Windows binaries since version 33.3.0 (released in August this year or 3 months ago). This is why the AVX check was introduced this 33.4.1 update.

[hermit]

EOL dates according to https://endoflife.date/windows
Windows 10 Version 1809 Build 17763.x ends 2029-Jan-09
Windows 10 Version 21H2 Build 19044.x ends 2032-Jan-12
(There is no need to downgrade to Windows "11" Build 22000.x and onwards!)

In Germany it's perfectly legal to sell and buy used Software so we bought a bunch of 2nd hand licenses…

Currently we run Windows 10 Version 1809 Build 17763.6414 → cumulative update 2024-Oct.
(Only the Browsers have Web-Proxy Access. Windows itself does not have access to the Internet! Nor does it have access to the Web-Proxy. Firewall-Appliance + NIPS blocks anything. Internet Software only runs sandboxed; so we feel some kind of "save".)

When I move to my "new" (old → 2nd-hand) Workstation with Intel Xeon W-3225 there will be Windows 10 IoT 21H2 (Build 19044.1288) because the license was part of the deal. Then I have to do a fresh installation of Pale Moon what might be a bit tricky if the installer can't detect AVX… 🤔

Maybe (or not) sometimes my friends update their boxes to Windows 10 Version 21H2 (Build 19044.x) but since 2023 we're migrating sloooowly to Debian (and FreeBSD) anyway. WaaS (Windows as a Service) is not an option for all of us! 🙄

Until I get completely rid of Microsoft my remaining Windows installation may be transfered to Proxmox VE. Time will tell… 🙂🙃

As a work around can I install Pale Moon 33.3.1 and update to 33.4.0.1? 🤔

Kind regards
Michael

[Moonchild]

EoL for Home, Pro, Pro Education, Pro for Workstations (i.e. all regular desktop versions) was Nov 10, 2020. Only Enterprise and IoT LTSC versions have extended security updates.
First party info: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro

I know a number of people have jumped on the LTSC train when Windows 11 was released and people wanted Windows 10 to be what Microsoft promised (to be the last version of Windows) but you have to understand that actually having a valid license for it AND being on 1809 as opposed to 21H2 (which is supporting the proper AVX check call) is exceedingly rare for regular home users (which your situation seems to be). This is why I opted to let support for that particular combination fall away in the check (otherwise it would be rather pointless as a whole, having no CPU check on anything relevant).

As said I'll look into improving the check for the December release.

As a work around can I install Pale Moon 33.3.1 and update to 33.4.0.1? 🤔

Yes, as said before, just using the normal updater method inside the browser will work.

[hermit]

Dear Moonchild.

…
I know a number of people have jumped on the LTSC train when Windows 11 was released and people wanted Windows 10 to be what Microsoft promised (to be the last version of Windows) but you have to understand that actually having a valid license for it AND being on 1809 as opposed to 21H2 (which is supporting the proper AVX check call) is exceedingly rare for regular home users (which your situation seems to be).

That's right! I also think it's a rare condition.

This is why I opted to let support for that particular combination fall away in the check (otherwise it would be rather pointless as a whole, having no CPU check on anything relevant).

As said I'll look into improving the check for the December release.

Great. I'm looking forward to it! 😊
(Well… I once again have to donate to Pale Moon project!!!)

As a work around can I install Pale Moon 33.3.1 and update to 33.4.0.1? 🤔

Yes, as said before, just using the normal updater method inside the browser will work.

Many thanks for your support and your patience.

And yes Linux is "different"! 🥶🤣😎
But macOS also is not an option… 🤪🤑 (And it's BSD*nix as well)

Best regards
Michael

[hermit]

Oops!

As a work around can I install Pale Moon 33.3.1 and update to 33.4.0.1? 🤔

As a work around … install Pale Moon 33.3.1 and update to 33.4.1…

[Michaell]

FWIW, I'm on Win10 1709 with AVX capable CPU, and my normal way of updating Portable PM worked fine. Even though Portable download is an exe, it's just a self-extracting 7z archive.

[Moonchild]

I think I may have a solution, allowing installation on AVX-capable systems on Win 10 versions < build 2004.
Please give this installer a try (unstable branding): https://ftp.palemoon.org/publicbeta/palemoon-33.4.1-addtest.win64.installer.exe

[hermit]

I think I may have a solution, allowing installation on AVX-capable systems on Win 10 versions < build 2004.
Please give this installer a try (unstable branding): https://ftp.palemoon.org/publicbeta/palemoon-33.4.1-addtest.win64.installer.exe

The issue persist @ W10 v1809 build 17763.6414 (@ fresh/clean virtual machine).

[Nelraen]

FWIW, I'm on Win10 1709 with AVX capable CPU, and my normal way of updating Portable PM worked fine. Even though Portable download is an exe, it's just a self-extracting 7z archive.

Same with 1809 LTSC on a virtualized 5950X with regular non-portable 64bit install, just did the update: no problem.

(And thanks for the tip to install previous and upgrade from there, Moonchild, will keep that in mind if needed.)

[Moonchild]

The issue persist @ W10 v1809 build 17763.6414 (@ fresh/clean virtual machine).

Hmm.. :/ okay. please let me know if this one works any better: https://ftp.palemoon.org/publicbeta/palemoon-33.4.1-addtest-alt.win64.installer.exe

[Scavengre]

This check was added primarily for less-informed users trying to install Pale Moon on old machines - instead of giving them a non-working browser after successful installation, it's more informative to tell them what's wrong straight away.

Does this mean that 33.4.0.1 (64-bit?) is the last version of Pale Moon that'll run on Windows 7*?

Yes, I know it's an antiquated system, and probably hasn't been 'officially' supported since a Mr. Bush was President of the USA, but it would be nice to know before I break my existing Pale Moon installation if this really is the breaking change. Incidentally, 33.4.0.1 has worked quite well so far (occasional crashes on Substack pages excepted).

Thank you, S.

*
Windows 7 Pro SP1, 64-bit
My processor has AVX2 instructions (Core i7-4900MQ).
Pale Moon 33.4.0.1 64-bit

[Moonchild]

Does this mean that 33.4.0.1 (64-bit?) is the last version of Pale Moon that'll run on Windows 7*?

No.
This has nothing to do with O.S. compatibility of the browser itself. The only thing that is OS-dependent is our installer's ability to check whether the CPU has the instruction sets the (64-bit) browser needs. The check doesn't work on Win 7, 8 or 8.1, period, and the check doesn't work on Windows 10 before build 2004. On win 7 8 and 8.1, the check is simply bypassed (equalling to what 33.4.0.1 had, i.e. users have to check themselves before installation that they have a capable CPU). I've been working on determining the exact version of Windows here to also bypass it on early Windows 10 builds, but it's not straightforward.

[Scavengre]

Ah. Thank you very much - I was unclear on what you meant in the 'Release Notes' about 'this check will fail'. I shall have a go at updating, and update this post with news! Ta, S.

eta: Seems to work beautifully. Thanks again!

[Nuck-TH]

The check doesn't work on Win 7, 8 or 8.1, period, and the check doesn't work on Windows 10 before build 2004.

IMHO, but at this point it is getting ridiculous. And pretty useless.
Can installer run programs unpacked from it during install and check return value? If yes then it will be simplier to write minimal program that checks flags in cpuid and simply returns 0/1/2 on SSE2/AVX/AVX2 or something like that.

[moonbat]

Can installer run programs unpacked from it during install and check return value?

That would entail unpacking everything first, then running the program (another item to be maintained) and then deleting everything unpacked if the check fails, whereas if the check fails in the installer it would just quit - no file extraction needed.