Is there any way to see what exactly is uses CPU in palemoon?

[Harkonnen]

Situation: palemoon is using ~100% CPU. Is there any way see a breakdown of what scripts/addons are currently running and causing this? Or at least which windows/tab is a main offender?

[suzyne]

In the address bar:

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about:performance

and:

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about:memory

can help with figuring out what is using the processor.

[Night Wing]

Just a guess on my part, but when people come into our shop complaining about high percentage of CPU usage, one of the main culprits has to do with memory. Specifically, not enough memory.

I had a man complaining about high percent usage of CPU when he was running 64 bit Linux Mint 22 (Wilma) Cinnamon on an old desktop tower computer which originally came with 64 bit Windows 7 Home Premium. This man installed Mint on his own. He had lots of videos and a large music file. He was also prone to having lots of tabs open at the same time. He also uses 64 bit linux Pale Moon 33.3.0 (GTK3).

I looked for a program named, System Monitor and it was not there in his Whisker Menu. I then opened up the Synaptic Package Manager, searched for "gnome-system-monitor" and found it was not installed. I then installed it.

After that I opened up his System Monitor and found he had only 4 GB's of memory. After opening up a few tabs and playing a few music files, his CPU usage was 100%.

On my desktop tower computer running this hard drive is installed with 64 bit Linux Mint 22 (Wilma) using the Xfce desktop environment. I have 32 GB's on this machine and the motherboard on this machine is capable of accessing 128 GB of memory if I want to add more memory which I see no need to.

Xfce uses less resources than the Cinnamon desktop environment. With a few tabs open on my computer and watching a surfing video at the same time, my CPU is using 2 GB's which is around 6.2% (roughly)of my 32 GB's of memory according to my System Monitor.

I told the customer his machine was old and after looking for the specifications on the internet, his machine was capable of using 16 GB's of memory. I told him to go add some memory to max his computer out memory wise to 16 GB's and see if that helps his CPU percentage wise.

He came back in two weeks later and said after adding memory to get to 16 GB, his high CPU usage was no longer at 100%.

[Harkonnen]

I have 32GB of RAM, its definitely not that.

The issue i have is that lately i have to restart palemoon constantly because it starts to using a lot of CPU and start lagging (like, every 10-20 second browser stop responding for 1-2 seconds, completely, not only web pages, the interface too). Restarting fixes that for some time, but some dozens of tabs opened/closed later it comes back. And i cant figure which website triggers this. And when this starts closing tabs doesnt help, only browser restart is.

[Moonchild]

about:memory (as already suggested) can help here. Most likely it's an issue with so-called "ghost windows" i.e. websites that have made such a terrible mess of the javascript/modules/DOM that they can't be cleaned up normally. We're looking into what can possibly be done to deal with this situation but it's slow work because there's a lot of sharing between tabs for performance and efficiency reasons that can't just be killed at the first sign of trouble.

[suzyne]

Also, be sure to have the 64-bit version of Pale Moon, because with the 32-bit version the browser needs to "do stuff" more often as it manages memory.

[Goodydino]

When browsing, why not use multiple bookmarks rather than large numbers of tabs? I have hundreds of bookmarks, but it is rare that I have even ten tabs open at once.

[Basilisk-Dev]

Just a guess on my part, but when people come into our shop complaining about high percentage of CPU usage, one of the main culprits has to do with memory. Specifically, not enough memory.

...

He came back in two weeks later and said after adding memory to get to 16 GB, his high CPU usage was no longer at 100%.

Today I learned that older computers are slower than new ones

[Night Wing]

Just a guess on my part, but when people come into our shop complaining about high percentage of CPU usage, one of the main culprits has to do with memory. Specifically, not enough memory.

...

He came back in two weeks later and said after adding memory to get to 16 GB, his high CPU usage was no longer at 100%.

Today I learned that older computers are slower than new ones

Just curious.

Normally, I am on my newest desktop tower computer with it's three hard drive bay. The SSD I normally use when I am accessing the Pale Moon forums site runs, at this time, 64 bit Linux Mint 22 (Wilma) Xfce. That tower has a 12th generation Intel i7 chip in it with a processor speed of 3.60 unclocked and 32 GB of memory. It has a motherboard which can access 128 GB of memory if I ever want more memory, but I see no need to.

Although I live in the "woods" (so to speak) near a small rural southeast Texas town, I've got a good internet connection which is around 585 Mbps download speed.

After you quoted part of my previous post I thought I would get on my second desktop tower with a three hard drive bay which originally came with (ugh!) Windows 8 so it was built sometime in 2013. It came with an Intel i7 processor and it is maxed out in memory with 32 GB of memory with a processor speed of 3.40 unclocked.

I consider this second tower fast and not slow since it was built probably in 2013. It specifications are below. I got rid of Windows 8 and installed three linux distros on three SSD drives. The first SSD is now running, at this time, 64 bit MX Linux 23.3 (Libretto) Xfce and this is the one I am typing this message with.

After reviewing it's specs would you consider this second tower slow since it is at least eleven years old? I am asking since I've seen some newer computers which are much newer than this tower I am now on to be..........slower than this old tower and not faster.

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System:
  Kernel: 6.1.0-25-amd64 [6.1.106-3] arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0
    parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-25-amd64 root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
  Desktop: Xfce v: 4.18.1 tk: Gtk v: 3.24.36 info: xfce4-panel wm: xfwm v: 4.18.0 vt: 7
    dm: LightDM v: 1.26.0 Distro: MX-23.3_x64 Libretto July 31  2023 base: Debian GNU/Linux 12
    (bookworm)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Hewlett-Packard product: N/A v: N/A serial: <superuser required> Chassis:
    type: 3 serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 2AF3 v: 1.0 serial: <superuser required> BIOS: AMI v: 80.07
    date: 06/05/2013
CPU:
  Info: model: Intel Core i7-4770 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Haswell gen: core 4 level: v3
    note: check built: 2013-15 process: Intel 22nm family: 6 model-id: 0x3C (60) stepping: 3
    microcode: 0x28
  Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 4 tpc: 2 threads: 8 smt: enabled cache: L1: 256 KiB
    desc: d-4x32 KiB; i-4x32 KiB L2: 1024 KiB desc: 4x256 KiB L3: 8 MiB desc: 1x8 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 968 high: 1462 min/max: 800/3900 scaling: driver: intel_cpufreq
    governor: ondemand cores: 1: 800 2: 1462 3: 900 4: 800 5: 800 6: 1075 7: 800 8: 1112
    bogomips: 54278
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
  Vulnerabilities:
  Type: gather_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX unsupported
  Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion
  Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
  Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
  Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
  Type: reg_file_data_sampling status: Not affected
  Type: retbleed status: Not affected
  Type: spec_rstack_overflow status: Not affected
  Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines; IBPB: conditional; IBRS_FW; STIBP: conditional; RSB
    filling; PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected; BHI: Not affected
  Type: srbds mitigation: Microcode
  Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Turks [Radeon HD 7600 Series] vendor: PC Partner / Sapphire driver: radeon
    v: kernel alternate: amdgpu arch: TeraScale-2 code: Evergreen process: TSMC 32-40nm
    built: 2009-15 pcie: gen: 2 speed: 5 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: HDMI-A-1
    empty: DVI-D-1,VGA-1 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:675b class-ID: 0300 temp: 37.5 C
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.7 compositor: xfwm v: 4.18.0 driver: X: loaded: radeon
    unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa dri: r600 gpu: radeon display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 508x285mm (20.00x11.22") s-diag: 582mm (22.93")
  Monitor-1: HDMI-A-1 mapped: HDMI-0 model: ViewSonic VX3276-FHD serial: <filter> built: 2022
    res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 70 gamma: 1.2 size: 698x393mm (27.48x15.47") diag: 801mm (31.5")
    ratio: 16:9 modes: max: 1920x1080 min: 720x400
  API: OpenGL v: 4.5 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: AMD TURKS (DRM 2.50.0 / 6.1.0-25-amd64 LLVM 15.0.6)
    direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard 8
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:8c20 class-ID: 0403
  Device-2: AMD Turks HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 6500/6600 / 6700M Series]
    vendor: PC Partner / Sapphire driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: gen: 2 speed: 5 GT/s
    lanes: 16 bus-ID: 01:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:aa90 class-ID: 0403
  API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-25-amd64 status: kernel-api tools: alsamixer,amixer
  Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.0 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse status: active
    2: wireplumber status: active 3: pipewire-alsa type: plugin 4: pw-jack type: plugin
    tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s lanes: 1 port: d000 bus-ID: 03:00.0
    chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 1.36 TiB used: 19.49 GiB (1.4%)
  SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
  ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 EVO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB
    block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 2B6Q
    scheme: MBR
  ID-2: /dev/sdb maj-min: 8:16 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 870 EVO 500GB size: 465.76 GiB
    block-size: physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 2B6Q
    scheme: MBR
  ID-3: /dev/sdc maj-min: 8:32 vendor: PNY model: CS900 500GB SSD size: 465.76 GiB block-size:
    physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: 0615 scheme: MBR
Partition:
  ID-1: / raw-size: 465.76 GiB size: 457.38 GiB (98.20%) used: 19.49 GiB (4.3%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sdb1 maj-min: 8:17
Swap:
  Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
  ID-1: swap-1 type: file size: 6 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2 file: /swap/swap
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 38.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: radeon temp: 37.5 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Repos:
  Packages: pm: dpkg pkgs: 2367 libs: 1244 tools: apt,apt-get,aptitude,nala,synaptic pm: rpm
    pkgs: 0 pm: flatpak pkgs: 0
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
    1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
    2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
    1: deb https://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ bookworm main non-free
Info:
  Processes: 226 Uptime: 20m wakeups: 1 Memory: 31.3 GiB used: 1.41 GiB (4.5%) Init: SysVinit
  v: 3.06 runlevel: 5 default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 alt: 12
  Client: shell wrapper v: 5.2.15-release inxi: 3.3.26
Boot Mode: BIOS (legacy, CSM, MBR)

[Harkonnen]

So, after monitoring about:memory for a day, it seems that presence of ANY "ghost windows" causes lagging and increased CPU usage. And it seems there is a lot of websites that leaves those "ghost windows" ...

[Moonchild]

That's probably an exaggeration, but there are a few big and popular sites that are particularly bad about this. Unfortunately, with how all major browsers "throw the baby out with the bath water" with their multi-process handling of tabs, this won't be a priority to address by the websites in question.

[suzyne]

Exaggeration or not, for me, Outlook is the key site that I won't visit in Pale Moon. The stuttering and lagging that it triggers after checking my emails simply isn't worth it. I guess, it is dependent on what you do and where you go on the internet, but I imagine that many (most?) Pale Moon users need to be pragmatists who fall back to a different browser sometimes, or even have another open in parallel all the time?

[Pregio03]

I have 32GB of RAM, its definitely not that.

The issue i have is that lately i have to restart palemoon constantly because it starts to using a lot of CPU and start lagging (like, every 10-20 second browser stop responding for 1-2 seconds, completely, not only web pages, the interface too). Restarting fixes that for some time, but some dozens of tabs opened/closed later it comes back. And i cant figure which website triggers this. And when this starts closing tabs doesnt help, only browser restart is.

Hi, this is the very similar issue I still have that has come about only after a clean full new install of linux mint 22 and so far the only site causing this is youtube. Have also tried previous 3 versions of Palemoon and they did the same thing....so..i am wondering if there is a dependency or library issue particular to linux mint 22?

Situation: palemoon is using ~100% CPU. Is there any way see a breakdown of what scripts/addons are currently running and causing this? Or at least which windows/tab is a main offender?

similar issue i have also seen - this did not happen in mint 21. So how to drill down to what is the underlying cause - are there any suggestions for what i could do to help identify what may be the cause. cheers

[Harkonnen]

look up. My finding that this is caused by ANY ghost windows left by website scripting. And as the devs said the only solution right now is restarting as soon as one appears. you can look in about:memory for their presence.

Btw, in my experience youtube is not cause, it just lagging is very obvious on videos. Of the sites i frequent major offenders are github, formula1.com and olx.ua (ukrainian kinda ebay).

[Basilisk-Dev]

After reviewing it's specs would you consider this second tower slow since it is at least eleven years old? I am asking since I've seen some newer computers which are much newer than this tower I am now on to be..........slower than this old tower and not faster.

I wouldn't consider it slow, benchmarks say the i7-4770 is comparable to a current gen i3. I was using an i7-4790k as my primary desktop until early 2023, and the person I sold it to is now using it as their primary desktop computer.

Year-over-year improvements in terms of CPU performance have slowed down a lot compared to the gains that you would get each year in the past. For example, I would consider a 2014 computer perfectly usable in 2024, even for software development, but I would not have wanted to use a 2004 computer in 2014.

For reference my i7-4790k compiled Pale Moon/Basilisk in less than 20 minutes.

[Night Wing]

Exaggeration or not, for me, Outlook is the key site that I won't visit in Pale Moon.

For me, Pale Moon has problems with Hotmail.

Since Microsoft bought Hotmail, I have to use the Microsoft "sign in" to get to my Hotmail account. But Pale Moon will not show the scrollbar so I cannot get to see all of my folders.

When I visit Hotmail to see how many phishing emails are in my Junk folder, I have to use the Waterfox browser. I think 90% of my emails are phishing emails.

[suzyne]

For me, Pale Moon has problems with Hotmail.

I won't because I find webmail to be very convenient, but I guess many might say just use a proper email program?

I find I can log in to https://outlook.live.com/ without a problem, which is nice. And even though I can't call the experience smooth, the webmail actually works fine in Pale Moon, and as long as I remain on the tab everything it fine.

But when switching to other tabs, the slowdown from Outlook becomes immediately apparent.

Off-topic:
I only got my Microsoft account about 5 years ago, so I was extremely amazed that I was able to claim given.family@outlook.com.au without having to include any digits, weird punctuation, misspelling, or other tricks to make it unique. I can't say that my full name is unusual in Australia, so it was especially surprising that it was available! I felt very lucky.

[Van2024]

The stuttering and lagging that it triggers after checking my emails simply isn't worth it.

[Moonchild]

The stuttering and lagging that it triggers after checking my emails simply isn't worth it.

Nobody says you have to use it. Outlook webmail has always been notoriously bad on anything that isn't Microsoft's preferred browser (in this case Edge, previously MSIE). Similar to Google always preferring Chrome for their web services and "YMMV" on anything else you may choose, often disproportionately so.
Using a dedicated e-mail application will always give you a superior (and more private) experience than webmail, if for nothing else but for the fact that most have external ad scripting running right next to your mail content.