Doesn't work VK.com (crashed)

[Lativik]

Operating system: Win 10 21H2
Browser version: 33.1.0 Portable
32-bit or 64-bit browser?: 64
Problem URL: VK.com
Browser theme (if not default): no
Installed add-ons: no
Installed plugins: (about:plugins): no

If possible, please include the output of help->troubleshooting information (as text):

just open VK.com, the browser = crashed.

[Moonchild]

Go to help -> troubleshooting information, click "Copy text to clipboard" and paste in your reply.

Also, please read this viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2094
And use those instructions to add crash information (appcrashview)

[Pentium4User]

I can confirm this.
https://vk.com/public158109176?z=photo- ... 6_00%2Frev
In gdb

Code: Select all

Thread 1 "palemoon" received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x00007ffff3fde5e3 in ?? () from /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so

[Moonchild]

Unable to replicate. launched a fresh build (for ease of debugging) and it loads up just fine. Win 10 latest + x64 Pale Moon.
(I can't debug on linux, so that doesn't really help me)

[Nuck-TH]

My report is here: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=31096

Windows 10 Enterprise x64
Pale Moon 33.1.0 AVX2

Appcrashview info:

Code: Select all

Version=1
EventType=APPCRASH
EventTime=133589572475536855
ReportType=2
Consent=1
UploadTime=133589572479429014
ReportStatus=268435456
ReportIdentifier=d00828d2-1b13-466c-9a81-65d1b0abc9bb
IntegratorReportIdentifier=84f1c8d6-5e62-4f12-ba5c-d58420ad8e78
Wow64Host=34404
NsAppName=palemoon.exe
OriginalFilename=palemoon.exe
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TargetAppVer=2024//04//23:11:33:19!48adc!palemoon.exe
BootId=4294967295
TargetAsId=2812
UserImpactVector=808452912
IsFatal=1
EtwNonCollectReason=1
Response.BucketId=71c200881498d48d1e7997f49c06fa11
Response.BucketTable=4
Response.LegacyBucketId=2195953370165344785
Response.type=4
Sig[0].Name=Имя приложения
Sig[0].Value=palemoon.exe
Sig[1].Name=Версия приложения
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Sig[2].Name=Отметка времени приложения
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FriendlyEventName=Остановка работы
ConsentKey=APPCRASH
AppName=Pale Moon web browser
AppPath=C:\Program Files\Pale Moon\palemoon.exe
NsPartner=windows
NsGroup=windows8
ApplicationIdentity=B942DA650A747E2CB0020460F6634287
MetadataHash=143961870

[Moonchild]

Difficult to reproduce, it's intermittent, but I managed to get a crash eventually.

Exception thrown at 0x00007FFD9EDC49ED (mozjs.dll) in palemoon.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000000000022.

So it's a near-null crash.
I'll file an issue.

EDIT: Filed Issue #2508 (UXP)

[yury_700]

On Linux, I get the quoted stuff in 33.1.0 run under GDB when trying to open vk.com. The site's behaviour degraded under palemoon in the last week of April or so. But, say, librewolf works okay.

And such situations happen more often these days, it seems. Is there a general strategy to deal with that? Maybe consider effing chromium or whatever to be a 'real' standard?

Thread 1 "palemoon" received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x00007ffff5d72303 in ?? () from /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so

(gdb) bt

#0 0x00007ffff5d72303 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#1 0x00007ffff5d76dcb in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#2 0x00007ffff5f01563 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#3 0x00007ffff5f02032 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#4 0x00007ffff5f021e2 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#5 0x00007ffff5f02d13 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#6 0x00007ffff5bcbd47 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#7 0x00007ffff5bfd33a in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#8 0x00007ffff5ee1e55 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#9 0x00007ffff5eeb3bd in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#10 0x00007ffff5d68d4a in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#11 0x00007ffff5d6a938 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#12 0x00007ffff5d6ba2c in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#13 0x00007ffff5d22b84 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#14 0x00007ffff5d38be1 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#15 0x00007ffff5bd637a in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#16 0x00007ffff58e7d99 in ??? () at /home/me/p/palemoon/libxul.so
#17 0x0000376f2e1d214a in ??? ()
#18 0x00007fffe3581148 in ??? ()
#19 0x00007ffffffeeaf0 in ??? ()
#20 0x0000000000000000 in ??? ()

[suzyne]

Is there a general strategy to deal with that?

I always have a Chromium browser on hand (currently that is Edge) which is my fallback browser. It would be wonderful if Pale Moon could handle all the sites I use (and to be clear, it does work perfectly with the majority), but a second browser is my strategy while compatibility is worked on.

[moonbat]

Standards have ceased to have any meaning, given Google controls them and simply keeps on stuffing fluff into it by first introducing it into Chromium and various JS frameworks and then making it part of the standard.

[yury_700]

So, would there be some resolution to this? I don't like to say it, but the PM browser seems becomes less and less viable.

Surely it's no fault of the PM team that, say, VK.com site developers do not comply to standards, but that does not seem to be a useful answer to the browser operators. A browser in which you have to abstain from clicking on links or opening sites?

Is there any viability in following, say, Chromium interpretation of standards, or is that venue completely out of question?

[Moonchild]

So, would there be some resolution to this?

if we can figure out what triggers the crash, sure.

I don't like to say it, but the PM browser seems becomes less and less viable.

You know, this is something a lot of people say the moment one of their favourite sites develops a problem. It's just not true; crashes occur in all browsers including mainstream commercial ones funded with half a billion a year. Does that suddenly make them "less and less viable"? No. Yes, we have web compatibility issues. So does every non-Chrome browser, because Chrome determines the "standards" in their monopoly position and they keep tacking on more and more draft specs that are implementation-first and the "standards" in quotes resulting from that are just describing how Chrome has implemented their new thing -- not the normal, traditional way where web developers were the driving force behind it and all browsers got equal opportunity to first discuss if it was desirable and second time to implement before it was being used in the wild.
Sorry, rant over.

If you're unhappy with Pale Moon and unhappy with using a second browser for some websites, then Pale Moon is simply not the best choice of browser for you and you should use a different one. This is especially the case if your main use of the web is a few high-profile websites that are geared only towards the Blink engine.

[yury_700]

You know, this is something a lot of people say the moment one of their favourite sites develops a problem.

Unfortunately, people these days are quite dependent on their browser functioning.

The PM carried me for seven years or so, and I didn't as much as squeak when youtube stopped working, aliexpress stopped working, facebook stopped working, google translate stopped working, github developed problems, archive.org became unable to search from the main page. Some of those sort of came back to normal, some didn't.
Now, however, the popular site can reliably take the browser down.

Maybe it's time to reconsider the general strategy? The orthodoxy is all right only with a numerous popular base. With browsers that would mean not reducing the feeding area, so to speak. Sorry for giving forth these platitudes.

the "standards" in quotes resulting from that are just describing how Chrome has implemented their new thing -- not the normal, traditional way

So would that mean the answer to my suggestion is 'no'?

[Moonchild]

So would that mean the answer to my suggestion is 'no'?

Not sure what you are asking. If you're asking us to use V8/Blink, then the answer is "no". If you're asking us to work on solving web compatibilities by implementing new things Chrome introduces, then the answer is "what do you think we've been doing for years now?" (i.e.: yes, we're working on it).

Unfortunately, people these days are quite dependent on their browser functioning.

Of course they are. But without being Chrome, you simply won't have 100% functionality on a purely Chrome-focused web. And Google will work on always keeping that "advantage" because the more people use Chrome, the less they have to pay out in revenue sharing for other browsers.

[RealityRipple]

Off-topic:
Remember the days when it was a web developer's fault if a website didn't work in a browser?

[Moonchild]

Off-topic:

Remember the days when it was a web developer's fault if a website didn't work in a browser?

It still is.

[yury_700]

If you're asking us to work on solving web compatibilities by implementing new things Chrome introduces, then the answer is "what do you think we've been doing for years now?" (i.e.: yes, we're working on it).

And thank you for that.
There is no need to 'be Chrome', of course. Just Mozilla's Firefox compatibility level, maybe?

In an interesting twist, PM at the moment is the only browser in the world having read/write capabilities for MAFF and MHTML archives (via adapted addons from the Classic Extensions Archive, but still).

[suzyne]

Is there any viability in following, say, Chromium interpretation of standards, or is that venue completely out of question?

My impression is that Google has created a structure that is impractical to scale without millions of dollars. Mozilla has the resources to try, but even they are forced to play catch-up in the technological arms race. So every browser that is not directly based on today's Firefox or Chrome is in an unwinnable position when it comes to compatibility.

In the short 12 months that I have been using Pale Moon, there have been continual improvements, but I agree that it is frustrating when a site won't work, and there appears to be no solution on the horizon.

[Moonchild]

forced to play catch-up in the technological arms race.

The thing is, nobody says that websites actually have to use what new things Google cooks up in their labs. So there are more guilty parties here than just Google.
Of course as a side note: Google did push the Angular framework to further that agenda and set the tone, but other frameworks really don't have to follow suit. Yet, they still do. (some market forces at play being the need for "constant change innovation", creating more work and repeat business, often masked under the terms "security" and "privacy" as a blanket "no further explanation necessary, just upgrade" reason).
The frustration of end users is shared by me, in that context. Despite the continual improvements made, it's never quite "good enough" because everything is a moving target. Nobody got the memo that designs and specifications are finite. Some designs are finished and can't be improved upon any more in any significant/meaningful way - and we've seen many occurrences now where the "progress" is just doing the exact same things in slightly different novel ways, which is just another form of insanity, if you ask me.

[motoprogger]

Difficult to reproduce, it's intermittent, but I managed to get a crash eventually.

Exception thrown at 0x00007FFD9EDC49ED (mozjs.dll) in palemoon.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000000000022.

So it's a near-null crash.
I'll file an issue.

EDIT: Filed Issue #2508 (UXP)

I have a similar trouble with this website, but the backtrace is different.

Code: Select all

Name 	Pale Moon
Version 	33.1.0 (64-bit)
Build ID 	20240419231830
Update History 	
Update Channel 	release
User Agent 	Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:6.6) Goanna/20240419 PaleMoon/33.1.0
OS 	Linux 5.10.0-26-amd64
CPU Capabilities 	SSE2 

Backtrace:

Code: Select all

Thread 1 "palemoon" received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x00007ffff5fbfc47 in ?? () from /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so
(gdb) bt
#0  0x00007ffff5fbfc47 in  () at /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so
#1  0x00007ffff5fc7b53 in  () at /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so
#2  0x00007ffff5fd068e in  () at /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so
#3  0x00007ffff5fd07b3 in  () at /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so
#4  0x00007ffff5b9b3f8 in  () at /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so
#5  0x00007ffff5ff5972 in  () at /usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so
#6  0x0000222e457f0eba in  ()
#7  0x00007fffffffbbe8 in  ()
#8  0x00007fffffffbb20 in  ()
#9  0x0000000000000000 in  ()
(gdb) q

How do I get something more useful about where the crash occured?

[motoprogger]

Not sure what you are asking. If you're asking us to use V8/Blink, then the answer is "no". If you're asking us to work on solving web compatibilities by implementing new things Chrome introduces, then the answer is "what do you think we've been doing for years now?" (i.e.: yes, we're working on it).

A browser not rendering the page correctly is somewhat different from browser that is easy to crash unintentionally with ordinary web content. The first problem is reasonably explained by the websites not following the standards, the second one is purely browser-caused.