I debugged it with no script installed and the crash is happening in LoadedScript class, a class that got refactored with the Dynamic Module Import changes. I'll look into it and see what the issue is.
Issue #2252 opened.
32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
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This board is for technical/general usage questions and troubleshooting for the Pale Moon browser only.
Technical issues and questions not related to the Pale Moon browser should be posted in other boards!
Please keep off-topic and general discussion out of this board, thank you!
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Thank you for your efforts, I have been following the opened issue with a lot of interest. I can answer the following question for Moonchild and others who are asking:
We use it because have been using it for years and it works for us and is set up exactly the way we want it to. I have rarely ever experienced issues with NoScript itself (they exist, but they are few and far between), it's more like it creates more issues for devs than they care for.NoScript users for some reason prefer to keep using it despite its multitude of issues (some level of masochism there)
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Just to be clear on this point: a web browser is already exceedingly complex without induced crashes and corruption caused by an extension that clearly has some fundamental design flaws. We don't necessarily have to address these issues but decide to do so where it's proportional to the problems it causes for users. We could simply have said "it's caused by the extension so we're not going to do anything" which would have been just as fair and reasonable of a response.
The fact that you've not run into issues for years doesn't mean that the issues don't exist. You can be a woodworker that uses a circular saw without a shield for years and never experience a problem. That doesn't mean there's no danger of someone losing their fingers. Right now the problem has simply become more exposed because of the work done on script loading in the core. What we can do to mitigate problems is very limited because we cannot and will not hold back necessary development to cater to an extension that isn't being maintained, no matter how many people use it. This time around the workaround was fairly simple but that doesn't mean the resulting circumstances are necessarily stable (it may actually end up breaking media playback altogether if it hits it slightly more severely). It did highlight more of the reason why noscript has been causing problems for years, though. And it really should be outright blocked because it is absolutely harmful to browser operation, but we're staying on this status quo to serve you guys as long as we can. It may get to a point where there is no workaround anymore though and then either noscript has to be updated to solve the issue with it once and for all, or you have to stop using it in favor of the (at least!) just as capable alternatives out there.
[/$0.02]
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Heh, I totally missed the 2nd page, so I guess this is irrelevant (except maybe the part [hidden] on Process Explorer).
Last edited by therube on 2023-05-22, 16:56, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
You are correct, you don't have to. But you are making a browser for users who look for alternatives to the big and well known browsers, and I assume you want users to use that browser, because otherwise why would you bother making it in the first place. This comes with certain things such as supporting the user base in a way that big browsers usually don't.Moonchild wrote: ↑2023-05-22, 13:31We don't necessarily have to address these issues but decide to do so where it's proportional to the problems it causes for users. We could simply have said "it's caused by the extension so we're not going to do anything" which would have been just as fair and reasonable of a response.
And just to be clear on this point: The second sentence in the quote is exactly what moonbat said. But thankfully there are some people here who care in a way that is beneficial for the user base instead of alienating.
I also never said that issues don't exist, so please don't try to put that in my mouth. I even literally said "they exist". What I said was that I have been using it for years (on multiple browsers) and rarely ever (attention, "rarely ever" does NOT mean NEVER) encountered problems with it.
And what you have described right now is exactly what I said: it causes more issues for devs than they care for, which is understandable. It's neither fun nor great to have to support an addon that causes issues under the hood, but I imagine it's possibly deemed a necessary evil for a niche browser with a selective user base and a rather popular addon.
I am fully aware that at some point it might be no longer viable to plug the holes a certain addon creates and that addon has to be retired, but luckily that point has not come yet for NoScript today, so thank you guys for that
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andyprough
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Nonsense. eMatrix is a far better extension than noscript has ever been, and it's fully maintained and up to date: https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/ematrix/
If I can use it then I'm sure that anyone that's a Pale Moon user would be able to without trouble - trust me, I am not a member of the technical elite crowd.
And if you don't like eMatrix, then uBlock in advanced mode will handle anything that noscript ever did and better. Using a nasty old piece of un-maintained junk like "classic" noscript when superior extensions have been readily available for years is all your responsibility, no one else's, you shouldn't act like this is somehow the Pale Moon devs' problem.
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Am I? When have I ever said that?
...but not at all costs. And that's where your reasoning unfortunately falters.
As already said by others: better extensions exist. And make no mistake the NoScript issue has at all times been a status quo, once it became clear it caused crashes and profile corruption. I've made no secret about the fact that it's not working well with Pale Moon, and you are on your own aside from what fellow users might be able to do to help alleviate the problems.
Actually, no. It's in no way considered a necessary evil because that would indicate the necessity of people using it. For lack of a better term, the use is condoned, with some massive caveats, because some people absolutely insist they think they need it. And just because that status quo has now existed for years doesn't mean the situation has changed or that it's suddenly receiving support when we work around a nasty crash caused by it. The only reason this will be worked around is because it was a trivial one that does not affect browser functionality otherwise (since it caters to a situation that normally would not occur).
So, for now, you can continue using NoScript, dangerous as it may be to do so. But eventually you will have to get used to using other extensions. I suggest you get an early start with it so you don't have to do it on short notice when it does definitively break.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
As long as issues of users are being heard and the issues are being dealt with I consider that "support" and am happy about it . But make no mistake, the customizability and ability to use older addons (no matter if NoScript or a simple old FF addon like oldbar) are two of the main reasons people use PM - which is also why the outcry was substantial when some old FF addons were suddenly not working anymore after you released a new version of PM (I think it was PM 30), even though all people had to do was edit the .rdf file.
. But make no mistake, the customizability and ability to use older addons (no matter if NoScript or a simple old FF addon like oldbar) are two of the main reasons people use PM - which is also why the outcry was substantial when some old FF addons were suddenly not working anymore after you released a new version of PM (I think it was PM 30), even though all people had to do was edit the .rdf file.-
JoeyG
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
In my super-simple test, with NoScript disabled, there is no more crash; the movie plays fine.
"And you can believe me because I never lie - and I'm always right."
(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
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(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
*Firesign Theater version
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JoeyG
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Off-topic:
https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Advanced-user-features
I've tried eMatrix, but wasn't able to figure it out. I'm not wedded to No Script by any means, but I've used it for years and years. If and when Pale Moon kills it, I'll look into a plan B.
Pale Moon was my default browser for years - since the day Australis landed in Firefox.
I'm sorry to have to confess, though, that Firefox regained its default status a couple of months ago because Pale Moon isn't able to deal with the scripts on virtually all of the sites I use that involve financial transactions. In my case, all of them require American Express's "SafeKey" function, which Pale Moon can't handle.
Sorry for the diversion.
Although this sounds pretty straightforward, frankly, reading the uBlock dev's caveats scared me off.andyprough wrote: ↑2023-05-22, 17:12... And if you don't like eMatrix, then uBlock in advanced mode will handle anything that noscript ever did and better..."
https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Advanced-user-features
I've tried eMatrix, but wasn't able to figure it out. I'm not wedded to No Script by any means, but I've used it for years and years. If and when Pale Moon kills it, I'll look into a plan B.
Pale Moon was my default browser for years - since the day Australis landed in Firefox.
I'm sorry to have to confess, though, that Firefox regained its default status a couple of months ago because Pale Moon isn't able to deal with the scripts on virtually all of the sites I use that involve financial transactions. In my case, all of them require American Express's "SafeKey" function, which Pale Moon can't handle.
Sorry for the diversion.
"And you can believe me because I never lie - and I'm always right."
(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
*Firesign Theater version
(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
*Firesign Theater version
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andyprough
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
The defaults for eMatrix are already set and easy to use, you just change blocks of 3rd-party scripts from red to green on the left-hand side of the table to allow those domains.
Both uBlock and eMatrix are easier to use than noscript, as they go by color - uBlock you go from red to grey with the right-hand column blocks (set 3rd party scripts to red with the left-hand column block when you first start). That's it, in terms of beginning to use both of them. On both of them, if you like the changes you can hit the lock button, if you want to revert the changes just hit the revert arrow, or they'll revert when you either leave the page or the browser. Easy.
And you are actually safer, whereas with noscript classic the developer of the extension is telling people to literally not use it. It is not keeping you safe, and it is known to mess up your profile - not good all around.
I should post some beginner videos that I can point people to.
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Off-topic:
See the screenshot of the advanced settings the wiki refers to.
No sane average user should/would touch those settings and there is no need to do so.
Reading the wiki is a recommended first step while understanding what one reads a basic prerequisite.JoeyG wrote: ↑2023-05-22, 23:43Although this sounds pretty straightforward, frankly, reading the uBlock dev's caveats scared me off.
https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Advanced-user-features
See the screenshot of the advanced settings the wiki refers to.
No sane average user should/would touch those settings and there is no need to do so.
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
I respectfully disagree with that one.
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
It's totally irrelevant whether it does or not.
- If an user encounters problems with the browser he/she should test with a fresh profile before asking for help in the forum. Period.
- In case the problem doesn't show up with a fresh profile it's not a browser problem. Period.
- It's the responsibility of the user to find out which add-on is the culprit.
- For maintained add-ons person to contact is the respective maintainer.
- If the add-on is unmaintained the user is on his own. Period. Browser developers are not in charge for add-ons except they are the maintainer.
The above applies to any browser and add-on (NoScript or whatever).
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Off-topic:
My bank site (Targo Bank, a big European financial institution) didn't work properly with eMatrix.
For example, when I typed in my name and password, the on-screen cues were still visible, which they hadn't been before. Furthermore, for some unknown reason, when I tried to confirm my transaction, I was taken to a French-language page that I had never encountered before.
I disabled ematrix and everything was OK again.
My bank site (Targo Bank, a big European financial institution) didn't work properly with eMatrix.
For example, when I typed in my name and password, the on-screen cues were still visible, which they hadn't been before. Furthermore, for some unknown reason, when I tried to confirm my transaction, I was taken to a French-language page that I had never encountered before.
I disabled ematrix and everything was OK again.
"And you can believe me because I never lie - and I'm always right."
(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
*Firesign Theater version
(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
*Firesign Theater version
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
@JoeyG, what version of Windows (in case this turns out to be Win7 specific)?
So... with this discussion, I put in eMatrix, & well, color me confused.
One of the comments above helped, a little, but I'm still confused. I'll have to stew on this.
And then I put in NoScript, & crashed immediately on bigbuckbunny.
And I'm like, hmm, how do you like that.
Restart & loaded another page (also mentioned in these parts), https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0022W59IC/.
And with that (& with NoScript enabled), PM (simply) disappeared.
So... with this discussion, I put in eMatrix, & well, color me confused.
One of the comments above helped, a little, but I'm still confused. I'll have to stew on this.
And then I put in NoScript, & crashed immediately on bigbuckbunny.
And I'm like, hmm, how do you like that.
Restart & loaded another page (also mentioned in these parts), https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0022W59IC/.
And with that (& with NoScript enabled), PM (simply) disappeared.
Faulting application name: Palemoon.exe, version: 6.2.0.8535, time stamp: 0x64621732
Faulting module name: mozjs.dll, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x64621a08
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x00000000003c9e8d
Faulting process id: 0x14ec
Faulting application start time: 0x01d98d8806243b26
Faulting application path: C:\WLIB\FIREFOX\Palemoon-Portable-32.2.0.win64\Bin\Palemoon\Palemoon.exe
Faulting module path: C:\WLIB\FIREFOX\Palemoon-Portable-32.2.0.win64\Bin\Palemoon\mozjs.dll
Report Id: 51e0b5ed-f97b-11ed-b00a-0021706a187d
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JoeyG
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29854#p239610@JoeyG, what version of Windows (in case this turns out to be Win7 specific)?
Here, too,Restart & loaded another page (also mentioned in these parts), https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0022W59IC/.
And with that (& with NoScript enabled), PM (simply) disappeared.
"And you can believe me because I never lie - and I'm always right."
(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
*Firesign Theater version
(Asserted by George Leroy Tirebiter* and my wife; only the latter is telling the truth.)
*Firesign Theater version
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andyprough
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
eMatrix has a power button to enable/disable it in its window for just that eventuality. Same as noscript and same as uBlock. Turn it off for the site that's not working (if you trust the site), and then turn it back on when you are done with that site. It's actually pretty simple to use it in its basic, default setup, and it works, whereas I seriously question if noscript classic is doing much of anything at all at this late date.
Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
Better way is to understand that eMatrix works as a whitelist - nothing 3rd party is allowed to run on a website by default except what you explicitly allow. This can cause problems with CDNs that are often from a different domain. So if the bank for example uses a CDN with a similar name, you would have to allow scripts from it. eMatrix's log will show you blocked items highlighted in red (type -- in the filter to only show blocked items). Other sites use Recaptcha for login - so that means you need to allow frames from google.com and scripts from google.com, gstatic.com and recaptcha.net otherwise the captcha won't be visible. A bit of trial and error and common sense and you can get it working smoothly for your frequently visited sites.andyprough wrote: ↑2023-05-23, 21:12eMatrix has a power button to enable/disable it in its window for just that eventuality
Perfectly put. This needs to be in the new post template (not that it would prevent genius newbies from completely ignoring itgepus wrote: ↑2023-05-23, 09:52- If an user encounters problems with the browser he/she should test with a fresh profile before asking for help in the forum. Period.
- In case the problem doesn't show up with a fresh profile it's not a browser problem. Period.
- It's the responsibility of the user to find out which add-on is the culprit.
- For maintained add-ons person to contact is the respective maintainer.
- If the add-on is unmaintained the user is on his own. Period. Browser developers are not in charge for add-ons except they are the maintainer.
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andyprough
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Re: 32.2.0 Crash on MP4 in Windows 7
I gathered that the user had already allowed all 3rd party scripts and frames and was still unable to enter the banking site without disabling eMatrix altogether. I could be wrong though.moonbat wrote: ↑2023-05-24, 00:07Better way is to understand that eMatrix works as a whitelist - nothing 3rd party is allowed to run on a website by default except what you explicitly allow. This can cause problems with CDNs that are often from a different domain. So if the bank for example uses a CDN with a similar name, you would have to allow scripts from it. eMatrix's log will show you blocked items highlighted in red (type -- in the filter to only show blocked items). Other sites use Recaptcha for login - so that means you need to allow frames from google.com and scripts from google.com, gstatic.com and recaptcha.net otherwise the captcha won't be visible. A bit of trial and error and common sense and you can get it working smoothly for your frequently visited sites.
As you know, eMatrix does do more than just whitelist and blacklist domains - it also has ad, tracking, and malware block lists similar to uBlock, among other things.