[Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

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[Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 00:38

Operating system: Debian/Ubuntu
Browser version: 29.4.5.1
32-bit or 64-bit browser?: 64bit

The stand-alone Linux binary hosted directly on palemoon.org includes the usual built-in browser update options (automatically install updates, check for updates but let me choose whether to install them, never check for updates), but Steve Pusser's Debian/Ubuntu Linux builds of Pale Moon do not include these options (presumably because it instead gets updated through the OS's own software repository updater and the like).

That being said, I'm wondering if there's some way to still at least get notification specifically of just Pale Moon itself for when there's an update without just straight-up having my home page set to palemoon.org or palemoon.start.me?


I know that the OS's own software repository updater on at least Linux Mint (Ubuntu-based) / LMDE (Debian-based) automatically notifies the user of updates, but that's for updates of all packages installed on the OS, making it much more difficult to easily and readily see when an update is available specifically for Pale Moon.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-04-05, 01:58

__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 00:38
That being said, I'm wondering if there's some way to still at least get notification specifically of just Pale Moon itself for when there's an update without just straight-up having my home page set to palemoon.org or palemoon.start.me?
Just subscribe to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11466&p=225938&sid= ... f1#p225938
He's good about updating it when he posts new builds.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 02:16

andyprough wrote:
2022-04-05, 01:58
Just subscribe to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11466&p=225938&sid= ... f1#p225938
He's good about updating it when he posts new builds.
He's not the only person posting in that thread though, so being subscribed to the thread will notify me of any and all posts in that thread, not just ones indicating that there's a browser update.

Speaking of which, I suppose I could always ask this very question in that thread...

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by Pentium4User » 2022-04-05, 04:42

You could write a shell script that runs apt update and checks whether PM is included in upgradeable packages or not.
There is no reason for PM itself to check for updates because that is completely handled by apt.
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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 04:59

Pentium4User wrote:
2022-04-05, 04:42
You could write a shell script that runs apt update and checks whether PM is included in upgradeable packages or not.
There is no reason for PM itself to check for updates because that is completely handled by apt.
While I am familiar with .sh scripts to be able to run various terminal commands when booting my PC, I do not know the actual command(s) in question to be able to check for Pale Moon updates in apt in the manner that you describe.

So uh, I don't suppose you could give me a working example to use?

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-04-05, 05:25

Better off with the tarball version if you want to manually control updates, given that the point of using a repository is to not have to worry about that.
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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by mmouse » 2022-04-05, 05:42

If I had this problem, I'd consider using integrated distro tool, that is, unattended upgrades, a quick Internet search led me to this:

https://linux-audit.com/upgrading-exter ... d-upgrade/

HTH

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 05:59

moonbat wrote:
2022-04-05, 05:25
Better off with the tarball version if you want to manually control updates, given that the point of using a repository is to not have to worry about that.
All I know is that, on my "baby's first Linux" distro of choice (LInux Mint), it never updates anything in the OS's software repository automatically unless you manually set it to do so (but, as of Mint 20.3, it's "all or nothing" in terms of automatic updating) - and I very much don't want it to auto-update everything.

As for using the tarball version, I just know that a more advanced Linux user advised that running it from the home directory was unwise, but I wasn't able to get Pale Moon's integrated updater working properly unless specifically ran from the home directory... though I suppose for my personal PC that's less of an issue since the entire reason that was an issue was so that it could auto-update, so I guess I could always just manually get the tarball every time instead...

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-04-05, 08:53

Why are you so scared of letting it auto update? The current kerfuffle is atypical, and unlike Chromezilla, Pale Moon doesn't break extensions with every update or reset your preferences.
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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-04-05, 12:26

__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 04:59
Pentium4User wrote:
2022-04-05, 04:42
You could write a shell script that runs apt update and checks whether PM is included in upgradeable packages or not.
There is no reason for PM itself to check for updates because that is completely handled by apt.
While I am familiar with .sh scripts to be able to run various terminal commands when booting my PC, I do not know the actual command(s) in question to be able to check for Pale Moon updates in apt in the manner that you describe.

So uh, I don't suppose you could give me a working example to use?

Code: Select all

apt-get -s upgrade && apt show -a palemoon | grep Version
Something like that would do it, without requiring a password. If you get 1 version returned, then there's no update, but if you get 2 versions returned (the installed version and the available version) then there is an update.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by Baloo » 2022-04-05, 14:42

Yeah, I don't see why you can't just use the tarball if you're concerned about auto-updating. I use the tarball in /lib/ so that Pale Moon can update itself through the auto-update, but if I didn't want to update I wouldn't have to click the button. Or why not use sudo apt-mark hold palemoon to hold back updates until you want them? Then when you want to release, sudo apt-mark unhold palemoon
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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-05, 20:03

moonbat wrote:
2022-04-05, 08:53
Why are you so scared of letting it auto update?
Not scared as I even have Pale Moon set to auto-update on my other systems; the issue is having the entire OS auto-update when my internet is not a ball of fire (10mbps aka around 1MB/s downstream at best) and, most importantly, I'm not the only one using the internet as well as these PCs so I need to make sure things don't get interrupted when other not-so-tech-savvy people are wanting to do things.

(and scheduling OS updates to auto-download obviously doesn't work if the PC is turned off and; because I use SSDs in everything due to generally low-capacity needs, the PCs turn on quickly and therefore the aforementioned not-so-tech-savvy people almost always instead just wait the few seconds it takes for the PC to boot up rather than walk away, so scheduling OS updates to auto-download at next boot when the scheduled time was missed also certainly won't work, and auto-downloading OS updates on shut-down definitely also won't work since a lot of times the PC gets turned off because they're ready to watch Netflix/HBO/other streaming service on the actual TV)
Baloo wrote:
2022-04-05, 14:42
I use the tarball in /lib/ so that Pale Moon can update itself through the auto-update, but if I didn't want to update I wouldn't have to click the button.
Ah yeah I didn't know that it works when put into the "/lib/" folder since I'm still at the beginner-to-intermediate level in terms of Linux skill-level.
Baloo wrote:
2022-04-05, 08:53
Or why not use sudo apt-mark hold palemoon to hold back updates until you want them? Then when you want to release, sudo apt-mark unhold palemoon
I'll keep that in mind, but the /lib/ folder thing will probably be the most elegant solution.
Last edited by Baloo on 2022-04-11, 17:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: User erroneously attributed post to wrong user.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by Likestofish » 2022-04-05, 22:49

While i'm not sure how much additional security it would offer, extracting and installing the tarball in opt/ might be the most secure location, with opt/ of course being intended for "third-party" software installation especially if chmod 777'd to update internally.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by Moonraker » 2022-04-06, 10:03

I would just bookmark the download page and do random checks perhaps weekly to see when builds are available.
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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by Falna » 2022-04-07, 18:01

Moonraker wrote:
2022-04-06, 10:03
I would just bookmark the download page and do random checks perhaps weekly to see when builds are available.
Or use Update Alert to check the download page for you :)

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by bgstack15 » 2022-04-10, 21:18

You can make a shell script with the contents:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update
apt-cache policy palemoon | awk '$1~/Installed:/{a=$2} $1~/Candidate:/{b=$2} END{if(a!=b){cmd="yad --button=OK --text \"New browser version available: "b"\"";system(cmd)}}'
Yad is a simple graphical window generator utility. This is a simple text box that displays the new version number.

And then run it say, in your at-startup section of your desktop environment, or in a cron-like utility. I have not demonstrated any mechanism to prevent repeated alerts before you have taken corrective action. That would probably involve touching a file in /var/run/user/$UID/ which sounds like more work than what you've asked for so far.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by Baloo » 2022-04-11, 17:33

__NM64__ wrote:
2022-04-05, 20:03
Ah yeah I didn't know that it works when put into the "/lib/" folder since I'm still at the beginner-to-intermediate level in terms of Linux skill-level.
Baloo wrote:
2022-04-05, 08:53
Or why not use sudo apt-mark hold palemoon to hold back updates until you want them? Then when you want to release, sudo apt-mark unhold palemoon
I'll keep that in mind, but the /lib/ folder thing will probably be the most elegant solution.
While I'm not sure why you attributed the second half of my quote to Moonbat, the reason the "place tarball into /usr/lib/) solution is not so elegant (And I don't say this as to erode trust in Pale Moon) is that it is not recommended from a security perspective to allow programs you install off of the internet to just write into root-controlled folders by themselves if they are not in the repository. However, I trust Pale Moon and its devs to not push malware onto my system through their secure update process. That being said, if you do decide to "install" Pale Moon on Linux in this way using the tarball, I recommend you follow the rest of the guide as well here if you are a beginner Linux user: http://linux.palemoon.org/help/installation/
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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by __NM64__ » 2022-04-11, 20:04

Baloo wrote:
2022-04-11, 17:33
While I'm not sure why you attributed the second half of my quote to Moonbat
...I am confused? I quoted two different posts across three different quote boxes - the first quote box was a post by moonbat while the second and third quote boxes were from your post.

Baloo wrote:
2022-04-11, 17:33
the reason the "place tarball into /usr/lib/) solution is not so elegant (And I don't say this as to erode trust in Pale Moon) is that it is not recommended from a security perspective to allow programs you install off of the internet to just write into root-controlled folders by themselves if they are not in the repository.
Well then what about the "opt" location as mentioned by Likestofish - how does that compare? (and maybe clarification on what "chmod 777" does since I tend to use Mint's GUI-based read/write permissions; while I know about chmod, I can never remember what the values correspond to):
Likestofish wrote:
2022-04-05, 22:49
While i'm not sure how much additional security it would offer, extracting and installing the tarball in opt/ might be the most secure location, with opt/ of course being intended for "third-party" software installation especially if chmod 777'd to update internally.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by Likestofish » 2022-04-11, 22:14

In Unix-based systems, opt/ is the directory intended for installing packages and programs that do not originate from your distro's repositories, and theoretically, it should offer a layer of separation from your more vital core user-space applications and whatnot. Like Baloo said, however, in practice it probably doesn't matter a fig due to the security and reliability of Pale Moon's own update servers.

chmod 777 would give full permissions to everyone in your system to read, write and execute a program or application whereever said program or application is located. Since you just want an update notification, you probably don't need to chmod 777 Pale Moon during installation, although I could be wrong about that.

If I am wrong about that, or for someone who does intend to update using the internal updater, chmod 777'ing Pale Moon will be necessary on many *nix systems, and giving full, untrammeled access to Pale Moon if it is located in your usr/ directory theoretically could be rather more consequential if something did go wrong than if it were relatively more isolated in opt/. While my distro provides Steve's builds through its package manager, sometimes if an update is slow to come through that route, I'll just use the tarball instead for a little while, and the debian-based distro I use will not permit the internal updater to update unless Pale Moon has been marked executable using chmod777.

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Re: [Debian/Ubuntu] Any way to notify of browser updates when using Steve Pusser's Pale Moon builds?

Unread post by mr tribute » 2022-04-11, 23:23

If you are the only user on the system put Pale Moon in your home folder. Lots of fuss about permissions when people tend to have their own computers or possibly share with their partner.

Permissions are pretty simple:
Read = 4
Write = 2
Execute = 1

That sums up to 7 if you have full permissions. 777 means User, Group and Other Users. If I'm not mistaken you can set 700 and only your current user has the right to use/update Pale Moon.

As someone who dislikes the terminal I have yet to find a file manager that manages recursive permissions (even in root mode). So permissions tend to involve terminal or copy to NTFS to clean Linux permissions.
So what does it mean to set permissions recursively? The short answer is whatever permissions you’re setting on the directory (folder) you’re working on, if you checked the box asking to set the permissions recursively, you are saying that you want to set those same permissions to EVERYTHING inside that folder.
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