Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Users and developers helping users with generic and technical Pale Moon issues on all operating systems.

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somdcomputerguy
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2022-04-18, 20:30

Pallid Planetoid wrote:
2022-04-18, 19:59
I'm currently using the Pale Moon add-on "Open With Edge, IE, Chrome, and More"
I have that extension installed and enabled, and sadly I do use it occasionally. So infrequently in fact, and it not really being worth of the 3 or 4 clicks it saves me, I'm probably gonna remove it now.
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Pallid Planetoid » 2022-04-18, 20:50

^ The add-on makes it easier, most especially for my wife (and me as a matter of fact) - no need to select and copy the URL from Pale Moon, find the alternate browser to click-on to launch and then past the URL into the address bar of alternate browser once the other browser is loaded after which to then click to load the website into the alternate browser and wait for the problematic site to fully load before it can be used.

Just two clicks using the add-on (right-click/select) all in Pale Moon and viola you find yourself in the browser of choice that is already loaded with the problematic site to be viewed (couldn't be easier) :thumbup: - and all the while the page is loading behind the scenes in the alternate browser you can simply remain in Pale Moon until the problem site is ready to use. :cool:

Have I convinced you to keep the add-on? :think:
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2022-04-18, 21:29

Pallid Planetoid wrote:
2022-04-18, 20:50
Have I convinced you to keep the add-on? :think:
No. I agree the process can be cumbersome even if only 'gone thru' once or twice a day, but I'm only finding I might have to 'go thru that whole thing' once or twice a month, sometimes several months before I want to read or read more of a page from a site that doesn't work or work correctly in Pale Moon.
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Pallid Planetoid » 2022-04-19, 00:35

^ I would agree, as far as the way you apparently use Pale Moon, the add-on doesn't appear to be needed. :idea:
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2022-04-19, 01:51

Pallid Planetoid wrote:
2022-04-19, 00:35
, the add-on doesn't appear to be needed.
Ya, I don't really need it enough. 99.9% of the sites I regularly use work just fine with Pale Moon, and my tolerance for sites that don't work well or at all with Pale Moon is increasingly growing thinner.. :coffee:
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Moonraker » 2022-04-19, 09:05

davews wrote:
2022-04-07, 15:47
I would have hoped after the recent episode this forum would be now a little less hostile, sadly not. For the record after finding Palemoon no longer working with reddit (use of old.reddit is not the answer) I have now moved over to Vivaldi. Much as I despise Chromium and would like to support Palemoon, I have to use a browser that works all the time. Vivaldi does, Palemoon does not and their forums are a much more pleasant experience.
Reddit is a very script heavy site and most browsers struggle with that site which is s**thole to be honest.
Not sure of vivaldi's business model and the privacy policy is so so .
It is a closed source browser with a propriatary licence plus a ID is placed on your machine and calls out every 24hrs but these are for user figures which leads me to believe that advertising agencies have their eyes on the browser.

I can do without reddit and changing browser just for one iffy website is a bit daft in my opinion.
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Indigoprophet » 2022-04-22, 10:56

andyprough wrote:
2022-04-12, 15:30
Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-04-12, 15:08
Google makes its money by selling user data, right?
Google is the world's largest advertising company. The sale of all your user data is just a small side business for them.
When I say "selling user data", I mean it in a general sense, thus including not only the silent gathering you're not aware of, but also the explicit gathering such as collecting your input into Google search engine and handing it over to advertisers for showing ads. So Google is making most of its money by selling user data, which includes your search queries. But maintaining a search engine is an expensive enterprise - Google is estimated to have around 2.5 million servers in its data centers worldwide, and significant part of this amount is used for the search. This array of servers requires huge amount of power and regular hardware updates. Also maintaining a search engine includes keeping a team of developers and assessors. There are other expenses as well such as paying Mozilla for making Google the first in the list of search engines. Now imagine how much Google can save by abandoning most of this infrastructure and focusing on development of a single browser that they will get all the data from.
I'm sorry but you are very wrong. Data collection happens through Chrome by design, but other browsers may still be using the Chromium engine without data reporting.
And what is going to prevent Google from silently pushing privacy-breaking code into Chromium itself, I wonder? Chromium is not just a rendering engine, it's a full-fledged browser, so pushing this code there is easy as pie. Nothing prevented Mozilla from it, let alone Google.
But Chromium poses a more serious threat than this. It's not obvious at the moment because Chromium is open source and everyone knows that. But how many people know which license Chromium is published under? The best known software license is GPL, which states that software can't be made proprietary (including closing the source) and all the modifications to it must be published. This requirement protects the users from getting hooked on open source software which is later made closed source and thus unsafe for them. And now for the million dollar question - is Chromium licensed under GPL? Surprise, surprise, it's not. It's mostly licensed under BSD, which is actually the weakest of open source licenses and doesn't include that requirement. Which means that at any moment Google can come out and say: "From now on Chromium code is closed and any browser developer and user that wants to keep pace with progress must accept it". And nothing will prevent them from doing it as soon as Chromium's competitors are defeated, because developers will have no alternative for Chromium (as it represents the de facto standard they have to keep up with) and users will have no alternative (as all the competitors will be gone and won't appear again the next day).
99.9% of the sites I regularly use work just fine with Pale Moon, and my tolerance for sites that don't work well or at all with Pale Moon is increasingly growing thinner.
In my experience you've seriously overestimated the percentage of sites working on Pale Moon. And it's definitely going to get even smaller.
Your tolerance to the site doesn't matter in case you need to use this site. So if too many sites (and there already are many) stop working on Pale Moon, your only choice will be switching to another browser, because switching between browsers too often is simply inconvenient.

The conclusion out of this opus (including my previous posts) is simple: we have two options. Either we fight back against this threat right now (the plan is on the table), or Google will eventually f*ck us all, it's just a question of time. I understand that it's hard to make some effort to do such a thing, but at moments like this it's absolutely necessary.

So I'm asking for the third time: Are we doing anything?

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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by somdcomputerguy » 2022-04-22, 12:51

Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-04-22, 10:56
99.9% of the sites I regularly use work just fine with Pale Moon, and my tolerance for sites that don't work well or at all with Pale Moon is increasingly growing thinner.
In my experience you've seriously overestimated the percentage of sites working on Pale Moon.
What I meant was most, or almost all, or 99.9% of the sites that I regularly use work fine with Pale Moon.
Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-04-22, 10:56
Your tolerance to the site doesn't matter in case you need to use this site.
My tolerance matters to me.
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-04-22, 13:34

Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-04-22, 10:56
When I say "selling user data", I mean it in a general sense, thus including not only the silent gathering you're not aware of, but also the explicit gathering such as collecting your input into Google search engine and handing it over to advertisers for showing ads. So Google is making most of its money by selling user data, which includes your search queries.
I haven't used Google for search for many years. I do not understand the problem you are referring to. This does not effect me.
Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-04-22, 10:56
Either we fight back against this threat right now (the plan is on the table), or Google will eventually f*ck us all, it's just a question of time.
I really don't understand what you're going on about. As I've pointed out before, Chrome/chromium users report enormous quantities of websites that won't render properly, far more than here on the Pale Moon forum. So if this is another rant about the "Chrome convergence" of the web somehow leaving Pale Moon behind, I'm afraid it's very much missing the forest for the trees. Pale Moon actually complies with web standards, and so is likely to work properly on a greater number of overall sites.

If I'm wrong in my perception and you are just generally angry at Google, well feel free to join the many of us who have kicked Google out of our lives. Sometimes it is a painstaking process, but it's well worth it.

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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Indigoprophet » 2022-05-06, 16:12

andyprough wrote:
2022-04-22, 13:34
I really don't understand what you're going on about. As I've pointed out before, Chrome/chromium users report enormous quantities of websites that won't render properly, far more than here on the Pale Moon forum.
I've given more than enough explanations in this thread, so those who wanted to understand did understand.

The amount of reports is not an indicator of how many sites are broken, but how many users a browser has to report those issues.

As always when something is wrong, there is plenty of complainers about how bad it is and just a handful of doers who are ready to stand up and try to fix it. I was hoping there would be at least some of the latter here, but I was wrong. So rest in peace, Pale Moon, cause that's where you are going with such supporters.

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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Moonraker » 2022-05-06, 17:00

Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-04-08, 16:35
gepus wrote:
2022-04-08, 09:16
Posts like yours aren't of any help. Period.
What posts like yours manage to do nonetheless is to waste Web Space, to frustrate devs and to annoy the few users trying to help people encountering problems.
You're so wrong here. Such posts are of utmost importance, because they are the sole source of knowledge that:
a) the browser doesn't work on all sites
b) your attitude to users' critical problem is poor

There's no other way for a potential user of the browser to find out this crucial information before actually starting using it than to come to the forum and read through this thread. So I've done a great favor to many users by writing it.
What a load of old guff.
Google chrome does NOT work on ALL sites and neither does firefox,so should they be dumped also.?
has it not occurred to you that maybe some websites are not designed to be omnipotent with all browsers and decide only a select few are permitted. 8-) .

Oh the shock and horror that crappy reddit for example does not render correctly so let's abandon ship. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by ron_1 » 2022-05-06, 17:02

Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-05-06, 16:12
As always when something is wrong, there is plenty of complainers about how bad it is and just a handful of doers who are ready to stand up and try to fix it. I was hoping there would be at least some of the latter here, but I was wrong. So rest in peace, Pale Moon, cause that's where you are going with such supporters.
As a Pale Moon supporter, I gave you a guideline on what to post for each web site that isn't working. But if you did it, I sure missed it. Have you posted any Web Console errors anywhere? I even did one for you.

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28111#p226359

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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-05-06, 17:08

Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-05-06, 16:12
just a handful of doers who are ready to stand up and try to fix it
I've seen some of the changes that are in store for Pale Moon version 31, which if I'm right, should result in a lot of sites that are currently "broken" to work correctly. I wouldn't be so quick to write this project or its fantastic developers off. I'm putting my money where my mouth is and have begun supporting the project financially, and I recommend that others do the same.
Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-05-06, 16:12
The amount of reports is not an indicator of how many sites are broken, but how many users a browser has to report those issues.
I'm not so sure that's true. Only a tiny fraction of Chrome and Firefox users are likely to ever find their browser forums and complain about broken sites. On Pale Moon, all users are directed to this forum from the first time they open the browser and see the start page, and once at the forum they are guided on how to properly report compatibility issues so that they can be fixed by the users or they can lead to developer fixes. When Chrome and Firefox have hundreds of reports of problems with Facebook or Godaddy or whatnot, that's a sign of significant breakage regardless of how large their market share.

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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-05-07, 05:45

Off-topic:
andyprough wrote:
2022-05-06, 17:08
Only a tiny fraction of Chrome and Firefox users are likely to ever find their browser forums
Implying those two browsers even have such a thing. Firefox devs have been tone deaf to user feedback for years and will simply ignore you or mark any filed bug as WONTFIX. All the help you get on their subreddit and other places is from other users. As for Chrome - does Google even have a place to report problems on it, let alone wanting to address them?
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2022-05-18, 07:59

Indigoprophet wrote:
2022-04-22, 10:56
is Chromium licensed under GPL? Surprise, surprise, it's not. It's mostly licensed under BSD, which is actually the weakest of open source licenses and doesn't include that requirement. Which means that at any moment Google can come out and say: "From now on Chromium code is closed and any browser developer and user that wants to keep pace with progress must accept it". And nothing will prevent them from doing it as soon as Chromium's competitors are defeated, because developers will have no alternative for Chromium (as it represents the de facto standard they have to keep up with) and users will have no alternative (as all the competitors will be gone and won't appear again the next day).
It is true that Google can at anytime close access to future changes of Chromium's source code, because the permissive nature of BSD only requires you to give proper attribution. But if Google ever does that, they will be shooting themselves at the foot. They didn't free their source code out of kindness or generosity. Ok perhaps that could be a factor, but it's definitely not primary. Making Chromium free software is a strategy. If the source code is available, anyone can hack on it. That means Chromium can accept volunteer work. Google doesn't have to hire many software engineers to keep improving and maintaining Chromium, because the community provides most of it gratis.

And they chose BSD not just because they like the option of not freeing changes to the source code, but because other companies also like said option. It's one of their keys in keeping Chromium dominant. But even if the company doesn't like freeing their source code changes, they might want to push some of their changes to the upstream, which requires freeing said changes. Why they'd want to free said changes you ask? Same reason as Google's: to lessen the maintenance burden by passing it to the community.

But even if we ignore both of that, Google simply can't close access to future source code changes because that would mean there's no way for other Chromium vendors to make sure their changes will be compatible with the latest version of Chromium; they will be forced to either fork it or use someone else's fork. Both scenarios Google has no control over.

So the possibility is so theoretical you really don't have to worry about it.
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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Indigoprophet » 2022-05-30, 15:32

This is it. My patience is over. Now besides plenty of sites that are not working properly my browser hangs severely despite a lot of memory and a powerful CPU available. I can't stand this shit anymore and fully switching to Brave, which is also privacy-centric, but lacks these problems totally. Anyone who needs a working browser and not some disfunctional crap is welcome to do the same. Farewell.

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Re: Important sites disfunctional on PaleMoon

Unread post by Admin » 2022-05-30, 16:05

Best of luck with your blockchain-supported Chrome clone.

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