Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive Topic is solved

Users and developers helping users with generic and technical Pale Moon issues on all operating systems.

Moderator: trava90

Forum rules
This board is for technical/general usage questions and troubleshooting for the Pale Moon browser only.
Technical issues and questions not related to the Pale Moon browser should be posted in other boards!
Please keep off-topic and general discussion out of this board, thank you!
User avatar
zelea2
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 34
Joined: 2019-02-02, 00:56
Location: UK

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by zelea2 » 2021-06-03, 03:12

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-06-03, 00:32
Do you actually HAVE hardware acceleration enabled?
$ glxinfo | grep rendering
direct rendering: Yes
In my opinion this is not hardware related. I have the same behavior on 2 different machines, one with NVIDIA the other with AMD Radeon and completely different drivers.
If I don't touch the fast-forward bar a video plays smoothly from one end to the other.
It is only when chaining videos or moving inside a video when I get this slugginess and in the end the UI freezes. Also PM never crashes.
Same hardware and youtube was working perfectly fine 1-2 months ago.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-06-03, 04:08

IN THE APPLICATION.

francesco bat

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by francesco bat » 2021-06-05, 22:14

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-06-03, 00:32
Do you actually HAVE hardware acceleration enabled?
Reading this answer, i enabled and reboot the browser and now palemoon works in youtube.
I did some test and it doesn't crash anymore.
Now i continue to try it and i check if it crash again in the next days.
In alternative to youtube I recommend:
https://www.viduba.com/
https://www.vidoevo.com/
There can to be start youtube video without problems :)
Bye
Francesco bat

P.S. what's the difference of hardware acceleration enabled and disabled (advantages and disadvantages)?

User avatar
seriousness
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 23
Joined: 2021-05-15, 11:44

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by seriousness » 2021-06-06, 14:06

Works for me, too. Xorg stays at ~ 5% cpu.

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4942
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by moonbat » 2021-06-06, 14:16

francesco bat wrote:
2021-06-05, 22:14
P.S. what's the difference of hardware acceleration enabled and disabled (advantages and disadvantages)?
It offloads graphics rendering tasks for video and games to the graphics card, thus reducing the load on the CPU. Computers that lack a dedicated graphics card (or where you're forced to turn it off because of driver issues) will see higher CPU utilization when playing video (modern games won't even work without it). This is the generic definition of hardware acceleration with reference to computer graphics.

In the context of Pale Moon, it works similarly and helps when watching video. I don't think there's any disadvantage to it - the only reason to turn it off is if there are problems with the video driver (seen sometimes on Linux). I keep it turned off because sometimes the browser flickers when switching back to it.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
Linux Mint 21 Xfce x64 on HP i5-5200 laptop, 12 GB RAM.
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-06, 15:19

moonbat wrote:
2021-06-06, 14:16
It offloads graphics rendering tasks for video and games to the graphics card
It does more than that.
If the hardware and drivers support the necessary features, it completely channels layout and compositing tasks to graphics card native surfaces as well so things like css, web page animations/transitions and font composition and rendering are also handled by the graphics card.

The only potential disadvantage to using it would be in the case of driver problems where you can run into instability or crashes (Nouveau seems to be notorious for that, not just in Pale Moon)
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
seriousness
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 23
Joined: 2021-05-15, 11:44

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by seriousness » 2021-06-14, 15:33

seriousness wrote:
2021-06-06, 14:06
Works for me, too. Xorg stays at ~ 5% cpu.
Yesterday I got an Xserver freeze, which is the reason for me to keep hardware acceleration disabled. Now I gave the proptietary nvidia driver (version 390.143) another try and YouTube works again without it.

User avatar
zelea2
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 34
Joined: 2019-02-02, 00:56
Location: UK

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by zelea2 » 2021-06-14, 22:50

There is an interesting development: One one machine with a NVidia card (and dual monitor configuration) I've switched from the proprietary driver to the open source one nouveau
[01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF119 [NVS 310] (rev a1)]

With the proprietary driver I was experiencing those slowdowns that were ending with a complete browser freeze but no crashes.
With the nouveau driver I am getting Xorg crashes every time I play a video on youtube (which I think is good news because now at least the bug should be traceable).

Again Brave and Vivaldi work fine with youtube with both the proprietary and the nouveau driver. Hardware acceleration is always enabled.

If I play videos which are embedded in other web pages (like here for example https://hackaday.com/2021/06/13/roller- ... yote-style ) video plays fine in palemoon. If I click watch on youtube, the same video crashes the entire Xorg.

Youtube videos do play for a few very short seconds before crashing Xorg.
Attachments
crash.txt
(1.18 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-14, 23:20

The Nouveau driver is known to cause issues and there's nothing we can do about it. it's a driver problem that consistently crashes on some hardware.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
zelea2
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 34
Joined: 2019-02-02, 00:56
Location: UK

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by zelea2 » 2021-06-15, 01:17

Moonchild wrote:
2021-06-14, 23:20
The Nouveau driver is known to cause issues and there's nothing we can do about it. it's a driver problem that consistently crashes on some hardware.
Couldn't this be used somehow to narrow down the problem? Since same video plays fine in other browsers with the same nouveau driver and the same video plays fine in palemoon if it's not on youtube?

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-15, 08:55

zelea2 wrote:
2021-06-15, 01:17
Couldn't this be used somehow to narrow down the problem?
No, it can't. Drivers are black boxes for us and it's not our task to debug other people's code.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

tuctuc

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by tuctuc » 2021-06-15, 09:07

I might have done some valuable observations. Recently upgraded my Debian to testing, so I can still boot the old kernel 4.19.181-1. So I was trying to reproduce that full system freeze on the old kernel, no luck...
On the new kernel: 5.10.28-1 and 5.10.40-1 It's really any video stream freezing Xorg while switching to fullscreen mode, fastforwarding or right-clicking on it, zooming maps, modern sites with floating elements (Any browser except FF and Cr, I'm still yet to test Slimjet and Iron). I've also found Basilisk more stable and responsive than PM atm, so I'm sticking with it for now.
I should mention my GPU is legacy NVIDIA G86, but I was completely fine with Nouveau driver in Debian Buster (proprietary nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver support gonna be probably discontinued anyway)
uBO 1.16.4.28 and Toggle Autoplay 1.0.0 are my only add-ons, HW acceleration disabled, and my best results so far would be with these WebGL tweaks after some hours of testing and awfull lots of REISUBs:

webgl.disable-extensions: true
webgl.enable-webgl2: false
webgl.can-lose-context-in-foreground: false
webgl.disable-angle: true
webgl.disable-DOM-blit-uploads: true

tldr: 4.19 kernels with nouveau driver were perfectly fine in Debian Buster as they're seemingly in Bullseye too.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-15, 09:10

tuctuc wrote:
2021-06-15, 09:07
tldr: 4.19 kernels with nouveau driver were perfectly fine in Debian Buster as they're seemingly in Bullseye too.
Conclusion: you need to report this to Nouveau devs because there's clearly some bad interaction between them and the Linux kernel.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
zelea2
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 34
Joined: 2019-02-02, 00:56
Location: UK

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by zelea2 » 2021-06-15, 17:59

Moonchild wrote:
2021-06-15, 08:55
No, it can't. Drivers are black boxes for us and it's not our task to debug other people's code.
I completely agree, it is obviously a bug in nouveau which crashes Xorg and that should be fixed by nouveau developers.
On the other hand the same driver works without a hitch when I play videos with mplayer or I use 3D CAD programs like ProEngineer or Varicad or play videos in other browsers.

The problem occurs only when PM and youtube interact. I was thinking more like having a backtrace when the crash occurs and see what was the driver doing at that time.

User avatar
Lunokhod
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 469
Joined: 2017-04-20, 21:25
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Lunokhod » 2021-06-15, 20:59

If you did get a backtrace install the debug symbol packages for libdrm, mesa, and nouveau and anything else relevant so it shows the function names involved. Tools like gdb, apitrace and valgrind might help generate some debug info too. apitrace and valgrind are quite simple to use, gdb - less so, but not that bad for defined purposes.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been...

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-15, 22:52

zelea2 wrote:
2021-06-15, 17:59
On the other hand the same driver works without a hitch when I play videos with mplayer or I use 3D CAD programs like ProEngineer or Varicad or play videos in other browsers.
just because Pale Moon happens to trigger (= expose) the bug in Nouveau doesn't mean we can do anything about it.
At most what we can do is blocklist the driver, but I looked at this before and it only happens on certain hardware so I don't want to block the driver that would impact everyone.
I suggest you use the proprietary drivers until Nouveau fixes theirs.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
zelea2
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 34
Joined: 2019-02-02, 00:56
Location: UK

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by zelea2 » 2021-06-15, 23:02

Moonchild wrote:
2021-06-15, 22:52
I suggest you use the proprietary drivers until Nouveau fixes theirs.
With the proprietary driver I am not any better. Instead of Xorg crashes I get PM freeze. My only option for now is to use another browser for youtube.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-06-15, 23:05

Then do that.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
Lunokhod
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 469
Joined: 2017-04-20, 21:25
Contact:

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by Lunokhod » 2021-06-16, 10:57

5.9 / 5.10 / possibly 5.11 kernels had definite bugs for the nouveau NV50 family, which includes G86. A lot of the driver was rewritten after 5.8 to use macros rather than hex code and mistakes were made in the translation.
https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/CodeNames.html
Don't know about the later kernels.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been...

tuctuc

Re: Youtube forwarding video makes palemoon for linux unresponsive

Unread post by tuctuc » 2021-06-16, 16:34

Nice one. Thanks for the confirmation and the background info, Lunokhod.

Locked