browser constantly hangs for brief moments

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Off-topic:

*youtube-dl is [...] In short, it's not just for pirates.

Yes it is, criminal.

[Moonchild]

Off-topic:

In short, it's not just for pirates.

And Tor is not for pedophiles because there is that 0.5% legitimate use.
And disassemblers are not for hackers or copyright infringers because there is that 0.5% legitimate use for debugging.

[jjjet]

(I guess this thread is the same issue that I've been seeing, so I'll add all the info I could get; I hope this helps)
__________________

Description
Extreme slow-downs
Starts out fast enough; works for many minutes, or an hour or two, but eventually starts freezing every minute or so, for 5-10 seconds at a time

Happens on all kinds of websites, including https://palemoon.start.me/start; Pale Moon Forum; MS outlook.com; reddit; google search results; and many more. Have not found a website where this problem does not (eventually) manifest. Might be triggered by outlook.live.com and/or Youtube, as I do go there often.

Basic syndrome is: No response to mouse & keyboard; "(Not responding)" in windows title; hour-glass; app window goes light; app window goes white. After 5..10 seconds, the clicks & updates (usually) come through, in a bunch

Seems to affect basic Windows GUI operations at UI events; often lags for 5-10 seconds in:
Redrawing the app window contents; redrawing the rectangle when an overlapping window is closed; minimizing the window; closing the app (clearing window); minimizing/expanding a window (clearing/drawing contents)

Sometimes lags 5-10 seconds in
Drawing/clearing its own internal menus & dialog boxes; Switching tabs; Typing into the address bar; Typing text into this forum window, right now
(no other app on the machine has this GUI freeze problem, even simultaneously with Pale Moon doing the problem)

Sometimes goes to "(Not Responding)" spontaneously for 5-10 seconds, without any UI events

I don't know if this exact problem happens on other machines,
but others in the family (on Win7 & Win10) have stopped using Pale Moon, due to "too slow, bogs down"

Restarting Pale Moon seems to help it (somewhat, for awhile)
Rebooting Windows seems to help it (somewhat, for awhile)
Happens with only 1 tab open; seems to be worse/sooner with more tabs open

No other apps (like MS Office) act this way.
MS Edge always works fine, even simultaneously while Pale Moon is frozen. (But I really prefer Pale Moon, if only it wouldn't freeze!)

During a hang:
CPU : 13%, often all Kernel Mode time, all for palemoon.exe, most is on ~2 of the 8 CPUs
Memory : 28% used
Disk light: off
__________________________________

Tried
Clean installation of 64bit version
Uninstall including deleting directories (per instructions on forum)
Downloaded & installed latest Pale Moon 64bit
No profiles, no add-ons
- No improvement

Change to 32bit version
uninstall including deleting directories (per instructions on forum)
Downloaded & installed latest Pale Moon 32bit
No profiles, no add-ons
- No improvement (seemed somewhat worse)

Shut down all unnecessary processes (including the antivirus (MS Security Essentials))
- no improvement

Running with no virus scanners installed
- no improvement

Scanned system with a different AV (MalwareBytes)
- nothing found
_____________________

Info
Operating system: Windows 7 / 64 Home Premium (fully updated)
Browser version: 29.2.0 (but happened on the last several versions; I can't remember when it started; a few months ago)
32-bit or 64-bit?: tested on both; problem happens on both
Problem URL: any, and none! (also happens on PM's internal menu/dialog windows)
Theme: default (clean installation, with directories deleted)
Installed extensions: default (clean installation, with directories deleted)
Installed plugins: (about:plugins) default (clean installation, with directories deleted)

System data
quad core, 2.8GHz; 16GB
NVIDIA PCIe graphics card
SSD; 130GB of 240GB free; DiskCheckup shows all SMART data as "OK"
Palemoon: HWaccel enabled
_________________

Please see attachments for
Troubleshooting Info
WhatIsHang
Screenshots
_________________

I've used Pale Moon for years, and it is the best browser in the world ... until the last few months.
I would love (and pay) to keep using it, but ... just can't, like this.
Is there any hope?
Thanks!

[Moonchild]

Uninstall including deleting directories (per instructions on forum)

How do you have a user.js in your profile folder if you made a clean uninstall?

[[PCMartin]]

Off-topic:

*youtube-dl is [...] In short, it's not just for pirates.

Yes it is, criminal.

No it isn't, cop. But seriously: go to law school, take an intellectual property class, and learn about fair use and the public domain. Fair use in particular is critical to a functioning democracy. If you're concerned about artists and creators, there's a much higher payoff in regulating how much streaming-service revenue ultimately makes its way to their pockets and how much gets siphoned off by the service.

[moonbat]

learn about fair use and the public domain

Fair use applies to the video itself, and in the context of copyright claims made by the video creator. You can argue about fair use if you reuse the content of the video in some way and that's not what this is about.
Youtube is a streaming platform and their terms of use require you to use the interfaces they provide, not anything else that scrapes their site so you are in violation of their TOS, which is a separate issue from that of video piracy (which is what is being done here or with any of the other front-ends like Freetube).

From their TOS -

The following restrictions apply to your use of the Service. You are not allowed to:

• access, reproduce, download, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, alter, modify or otherwise use any part of the Service or any Content except: (a) as expressly authorized by the Service; or (b) with prior written permission from YouTube and, if applicable, the respective rights holders;
• circumvent, disable, fraudulently engage with, or otherwise interfere with any part of the Service (or attempt to do any of these things), including security-related features or features that (a) prevent or restrict the copying or other use of Content or (b) limit the use of the Service or Content;
• access the Service using any automated means (such as robots, botnets or scrapers) except (a) in the case of public search engines, in accordance with YouTube’s robots.txt file; or (b) with YouTube’s prior written permission;

[New Tobin Paradigm]

tl;dr don't be a criminal.

[[PCMartin]]

Off-topic:

In short, it's not just for pirates.

And Tor is not for pedophiles because there is that 0.5% legitimate use.
And disassemblers are not for hackers or copyright infringers because there is that 0.5% legitimate use for debugging.

Even assuming for the sake of argument that your 0.5% figure is not hyperbolic, that 0.5% can be really important. Several years ago, I wanted to file a public comment with the Federal Trade Commission opposing ISP Comcast's 100% acquisition of NBC Universal. (Comcast happens to be my ISP, so they can see everything I do on the Internet that's in the clear. I don't use a VPN.) I tried loading a direct link to the public-comments page in Pale Moon, in the clear, and was mysteriously redirected to an FTC page for filing documents (the wrong page). I then tried navigating to the relevant public-comments page on my own and was similarly redirected. I repeated those attempts in Firefox, plain-vanilla Internet Explorer, and Google Chrome, in the clear, and got the same results. I then installed Tor Browser, tried in that, and was taken directly to the correct page for filing a public comment on the NBC Universal acquisition on the first try. Interesting.

(SIDE NOTE: Far fewer public comments were — successfully? — filed on the NBC acquisition than were filed on net neutrality, a matter that was pending at the same time. The acquisition was approved by a vote of 3 to 2, and one of the commissioners who voted to approve resigned from the FTC a couple of months later to become Comcast's Vice President for Government Affairs, i.e., their top in-house government lobbyist. Also interesting.)

Even if Tor Browser is mostly used by pornhounds and pedophiles, I appreciated that it gave me the ability to circumvent a roadblock that "someone" had thrown up to prevent me from participating in an important government decision. Even if freedom of speech is mostly abused by propagandists, hoaxers, liars, and trolls, I appreciate that it allows me (and others) to express good-faith views. And even if youtube-dl is mostly used by pirates, I appreciate that it allows the previously mentioned journalists, documentarists, academics, activists, and lawyers to extract fair-use excerpts in support of their case.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Tor is a badly compromised honeypot tho. Has been since AT LEAST 2013. Perhaps always was.

[[PCMartin]]

Off-topic:

Youtube is a streaming platform and their terms of use require you to use the interfaces they provide, not anything else that scrapes their site so you are in violation of their TOS ….

The problem arises when YouTube, a private near-monopoly, or other streaming services with similar terms of service, are the the exclusive platforms on which important videos are available. I have a relative who is a documentary filmmaker, and I know second-hand that he is held to ransom by copyright holders when he needs to obtain excerpts for illustration and commentary, the fair-use exception be damned. In practice, strict application of YouTube's terms of service would eliminate most fair use of the videos it hosts.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Isn't that the point. However, points in a terms of service CAN be legally actionable.

[jjjet]

Uninstall including deleting directories (per instructions on forum)

How do you have a user.js in your profile folder if you made a clean uninstall?

I see the user.js Preferences - Your profile folder contains a user.js file, which includes preferences that were not created by Pale Moon.
in my TroubleshootingInfo.pdf, but I don't think it's true:
- I searched for a user.js, and didn't find one anywhere on the drive
- I did a clean re-install (with directory deletes) again now, and did not touch any setting (and the hanging problem returned after about an hour)
- That line does not appear in Pale Moon's display of Help/Troubleshooting Information (see screenshot)
- It does appear when I copy&paste that page into any MS Office app (which I was doing, to print to PDF, to upload to the forum)
- When I paste into any other app (like MS Wordpad), that line does not appear
- It seems that MS Office is ignoring a Hidden attribute (?)

So, sorry for that confusion.
I think the problem remains, as described above.
Any prospect now?

[person45]

(and the hanging problem returned after about an hour)

Yeah, that's the thing.

Even if there's no problem with your computer, no problem with Pale Moon, and no problem with your internet service, some websites can have messy code that causes lag in the background.

Like if you're driving a brand new car to the beach during vacation, you may experience a bumpy ride. It's not that there's anything wrong with the car, but the roads have pot holes, and the local mayor was lazy and didn't fix them.

I wish I could code something like an add-on for a "nuke option" for those who want it, but I'm not a programmer.

[jjjet]

But
Other browsers do fine
The hangs also happen on Pale Moon Windows GUI elements, not even on any website

I'd prefer to use Pale Moon, but it's currently un-useable for me.

[Moonchild]

Other browsers do fine

Actually, they don't given the same user behaviour. They might mask it by being multi-process and "throwing the baby out with the bath water" when closing tabs, but even Chrome is known to get this issue on occasion.

I'd prefer to use Pale Moon, but it's currently un-useable for me.

Then by all means pick a different browser that is usable for your typical browsing behaviour. No point in being frustrated with Pale Moon or spending time here elaborating the matter.

[person45]

I can't confirm the problem with gmail.com.

I was looking at a few restaurants at the Yelp website, and then I got the browser lag.

Kris, can you confirm?

[thefossil]

This just started for me this morning, too.

I updated Acrobat Reader last night, which is the only recent update, but hanging, spinning wheel, "Not responding" every 5 seconds is making me nuts. I don't have that many tabs open, and I don't have any Youtube or gmail tabs open, which haven't caused issues in the past.
What is Hanging shows this at the top:
Strings found in the stack:
~\4u~\
https://aus5.mozilla.org/update/3/GMP/6 ... L%/%OS_VER
https://aus5.mozilla.org/update/3/GMP/6 ... %/update.x

Yes, I'm running Win 7 64bit with ZeroPatch subscription, so maybe a 0patch update did this?
The resource monitor CPU3 look like surfable waves and I wasn't even using my laptop at all.

[thefossil]

OK, seems to be working now.

I closed a few more tabs and restarted PaleMoon again...
My hunch is that is was a tab that had an imbedded YT or Twitter video.
I still have tabs that reference PDF files open and everything seems to right in the world with my favorite browser.

[[PCMartin]]

I don't have any Youtube or gmail tabs open, which haven't caused issues in the past.

I'm posting as a technical ignoramus, but:

Had you previously opened any Alphabet/Google (YouTube, Gmail, etc.) tabs in that particular browsing session? Closing an Alphabet/Google tab doesn't necessarily purge the zombie scripting it loads when you open it or do something in it (e.g., start a video, compose a comment, post to a chat, compose an email). Only restarting the browser seems to do the trick (bearing in mind that I've configured Pale Moon to delete its cache on exit).

Just because Alphabet/Google sites haven't caused you issues in the past doesn't mean they aren't currently or won't in the future. Alphabet/Google appears to "experiment" with its scripting rather frequently. My Pale Moon configuration has been pretty stable for quite some time, with the only regular changes being automatic background updates to uBlock Origin subscriptions, new permissions manually added in eMatrix as needed, and occasional Pale-Moon and Pale-Moon-extension updates. Over the course of the past year and a half or so, I've seen YouTube go from causing moderate cumulative memory leaks with minor impacts on overall Pale Moon performance, to serious memory leaks with major impacts, and back again to moderate and minor … with no action on my part. I've seen similar variation, albeit somewhat less frequently, in Gmail. When an Alphabet/Google site is in a serious/major phase, a browser restart is the only thing that will fix the problems, and not opening the site in Pale Moon (or at least not "running anything" in it) is the only thing that will prevent them.

I'm sure Alphabet/Google isn't the only offender, but it's definitely the one I run into by far the most often. For a while at least, the Tom's Hardware family of sites caused major problems for me in Pale Moon. I don't know whether they still do, as I got into the habit of preferring other sites for the same story, and opening Tom's Hardware sites in a different browser when I had no choice.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Off-topic:
Some of that TOS, reads like Google claims copyright to my videos, too!