28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Users and developers helping users with generic and technical Pale Moon issues on all operating systems.
Please direct questions that are Mac or Linux-specific (dealing with installation and OS integration) to the appropriate Linux or Mac board.

Moderator: trava90

Forum rules
This board is for technical/general usage questions and troubleshooting for the Pale Moon browser only. The main focus here is on Pale Moon on Windows. Please direct your questions that are specific for Linux and Mac to the dedicated boards for those operating systems.
Technical issues and questions not related to the Pale Moon browser should be posted in other boards!
Please keep off-topic and general discussion out of this board, thank you!
Kinpouge
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 19
Joined: 2017-02-25, 09:05

28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Kinpouge » 2020-03-29, 08:29

After updating to 28.9.0.2 reCAPTCHA went mad. Every time I clicked on "I'm not a robot" I was forced to solve the captcha, which needed no less than three or four tries each time. It went on until I changed general.useragent.override.google.com from

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:71.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/71.0 PaleMoon/28.9.0.2

back to

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.9) Gecko/20100101 Goanna/4.4 Firefox/52.9 PaleMoon/28.8.4

and general.useragent.override.gstatic.com from

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:71.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/71.0 PaleMoon/28.9.0.2

to

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.9) Gecko/20100101 Goanna/4.4 Firefox/31.9 PaleMoon/28.8.4.

Does anyone have the same trouble with Pale Moon 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA?

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 28506
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Moonchild » 2020-03-29, 09:29

Google will have to "get used to" the new UA. Reverting it to the old ones will do nothing except making Google services complain more than they already do over time.
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
Image

User avatar
back2themoon
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1841
Joined: 2012-08-19, 20:32

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by back2themoon » 2020-03-29, 16:01

Semi-relevant, about the google.com override: save for manually adding them, is there a way to also apply it on google.co.uk/ca/it etc. etc.? What is recommended - perhaps it's not even necessary?

User avatar
New Tobin Paradigm
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 8286
Joined: 2012-10-09, 19:37
Location: The factory in Neuconsin

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-03-29, 16:24

It can only work on the domain name level not specific urls.
Not so much safety first as it is stupidity last.
Image

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 28506
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Moonchild » 2020-03-29, 18:12

back2themoon wrote:
2020-03-29, 16:01
perhaps it's not even necessary?
It's necessary because if there are no overrides, then anyone who is not using Firefox Compatibility UA mode will have a Broken Web™.
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
Image

lazyaccountname
Moongazer
Moongazer
Posts: 10
Joined: 2017-03-25, 19:55

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by lazyaccountname » 2020-03-31, 02:08

I was about to look for a topic to report this as well, it's good to know there might be a better way to solve this issue temporarily than reverting to 28.8.4 (noticing how much easier captchas got after doing that is what convinced me to come here and dust off this old account).
ReCaptcha is such a mess that I can't understand why so many sites insist in using it.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 28506
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Moonchild » 2020-03-31, 09:14

lazyaccountname wrote:
2020-03-31, 02:08
ReCaptcha is such a mess that I can't understand why so many sites insist in using it.
  1. It's free
  2. It takes near-0 effort for the webmaster to integrate
  3. It's fairly effective at keeping spambots out
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
Image

User avatar
New Tobin Paradigm
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 8286
Joined: 2012-10-09, 19:37
Location: The factory in Neuconsin

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-03-31, 09:55

It is definitely something for their benefit not yours.
Not so much safety first as it is stupidity last.
Image

User avatar
cwhugh
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 2018-06-23, 04:52

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by cwhugh » 2020-04-20, 17:59

Hello - yes I am having a lot of trouble with Captcha - it took me half an hour to log into 'Supanet webmail this morning -the images are small (and American) - I can hardly make out some of the pictures and 'voice' option is just about unhearable and that too is with an American' accent it puts me off trying to log in some sites - as I know practically nothing about the technical side of computers is there a way round this
Thank you

John connor
Banned user
Banned user
Posts: 1492
Joined: 2015-01-21, 05:06

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by John connor » 2020-04-21, 02:10

Google blatantly discriminates against Pale Moon and maybe other niche browsers with Recaptcha. This has been an ongoing problem. The only way around it using Pale Moon is to either stay logged into your Google account, (not gonna happen for me), or use Firefox, Chrome when ever you need to submit a form entry. This is what I end up having to do. It's not Pale Moon's fault, it's bastard Google and the websites that chose to use their asinine captcha.

User avatar
back2themoon
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1841
Joined: 2012-08-19, 20:32

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by back2themoon » 2020-04-21, 09:03

Wonder if this will make a difference:

Cloudflare: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

User avatar
Giraffe
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 327
Joined: 2016-11-09, 11:57

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Giraffe » 2020-04-21, 15:28

Reading the comments about that article, it seems even worse than reCAPTCHA. The example given - what was that? I don't have any fellow robots and I couldn't even tell which were robots.
Windows 7 Pro 32-bit. Comodo Internet security or Comodo Firewall + Avira Anivirus.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 28506
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Moonchild » 2020-04-21, 22:37

Earlier this year, Google informed us that they were going to begin charging for reCAPTCHA.
Oh, that's actually great - it crosses off one of the drivers for using it.
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
Image

John connor
Banned user
Banned user
Posts: 1492
Joined: 2015-01-21, 05:06

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by John connor » 2020-04-22, 10:00

Yeah, this is great news in my opinion. Especially since Google will now be charging for their crap and Hcaptcha pays you! Big time game changer right there. Best of all I just went to the Hcaptcha website and solved a bunch of captchas with very little error and all were approved. If this was Recaptcha and with my use of Pale Moon I'd have a hell of a time let alone get in at all. Try it for yourself. https://www.hcaptcha.com/

About the comments in that CloudFlare article, I read the negatives and then I read some people were praising it. Like with online reviews you can only take what people say as a general consensus. And how can we trust who's writing the reviews? For all we know they may be Google fan boys or Google employees themselves. Or users of asinine Chrome, Firefox, Edge, et al. You never know. Just try it for yourself and see if it's better than Recaptcha especially with the blatant browser discrimination Google had on this the Pale Moon project.

@Moon Child. You should create an announcement asking websites to use Hcaptcha so that they A) don't have to pay for Google's BS, B) get payed by Hcaptcha and C) is more friendly for browsers like us.

Hopefully this changes the website landscape on what captcha websites use. And I for one will be emailing ALL websites I run into that use Recaptcha and try and steer them to Hcaptcha instead and tell them of the benefits. I advise others of Pale Moon do the same thing.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 28506
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Moonchild » 2020-04-22, 10:44

... they pay website owners for their service? That's rather suspect. How are they funding that?
I won't be promoting a service I find suspect. I'll need answers first.

Also, @John connor, my name is not Moon Child. You know this. Why do you persist on writing it the wrong way?
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
Image

John connor
Banned user
Banned user
Posts: 1492
Joined: 2015-01-21, 05:06

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by John connor » 2020-04-22, 11:21

Bunch of damn Google fanboys here, folks. https://community.cloudflare.com/t/stop ... /158968/58

Because they were so used to Google's telemetry grab with the ease of use with Recaptcha and Chrome, they never had to solve a "real" captcha and are now pissed at having to do so. Best part of reading the comments was that a user posted an animated gif trying to describe his troubles. The captcha says click on trucks. He was clicking on trucks and buses FFS! :lol: IDIOTS!

Now here's icing on the cake.

intr0
17d

Why is it that most of the people hating hCaptcha in the feedback here have just registered within the last 30 minutes to a few hours?

domjh
MVP '19, '20
17d

I think many of the users here are not actually Cloudflare customers, but visitors to Cloudflare sites, although some are site owners as well.
:roll:



Moonchild wrote:
2020-04-22, 10:44
... they pay website owners for their service? That's rather suspect. How are they funding that?
I won't be promoting a service I find suspect. I'll need answers first.

Also, @John connor, my name is not Moon Child. You know this. Why do you persist on writing it the wrong way?
Yeah, I was wondering about that, but it seems perhaps they are mining coins with the captcha or something? I don't know. All I know thus far is that CloudFlare likes it and picked it for privacy reasons, etc and so far it looks promising. I was able to solve 99% of all of Hcaptcha's captchas without having to do it again and I even tried connecting to my own site with a VPN I captchaed getting a captcha from CloudFlare and I passed it right away in Pale Moon. No BS browser discrimination!

I thought your username was two words, my bad...

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 28506
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Moonchild » 2020-04-22, 11:34

Ah. OK so they don't actually directly pay you for having users use it. You "earn rewards" in the form of tokens. Whether these tokens are worth money depends on the value they set and any exchange options you have.
The native medium of exchange on hCaptcha is the HUMAN Token (HMT), which can be used to request tasks within systems running on the HUMAN Protocol.
You should not assume that a HMT has intrinsic value beyond its utility within the system, and utility of a single HMT also varies over time based on a variety of factors.
It doesn't look like they are mining coins, but rather they are distributing problem solving tasks to end-users, tasks they obviously get paid for.
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
Image

John connor
Banned user
Banned user
Posts: 1492
Joined: 2015-01-21, 05:06

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by John connor » 2020-04-22, 11:53

Interesting.

FYI: hCAPTCHA don’t pay us. We pay them.

ReCAPTCHA decided to start charging for their service (which they have every right to do, but it was a surprise). Just to use ReCAPTCHA on our Free customers would have cost us $10M+/year, which was untenable. We’d been concerned about the privacy issues around using a Google service for some time, and this was the kick in the butt we needed to move off of them.

hCAPTCHA has been incredibly responsive so far to improving their service, something even at our scale we had a tough time getting from the ReCAPTCHA team.

Ultimately, we’re working toward entirely eliminating visual/audio CAPTCHAs. But, until then, we are enjoying working with the hCAPTCHA team.

I also had to signup for the first time. I am an enterprise customer paying a fortune for the service. I needed to mention my horror at this change, and our inability to effectively mitigate attacks (get the service we pay for) with this awful, awful change.
What a load of shit. Since I use CloudFlare anything that isn't stopped by them goes to my security script, well, there have been very few block logs or the same amount of logs for blocks then there were with CloudFlare's use of Recpatcha. I think it's safe to say some of these trolls are either in the tank for Google or work for Google. "Oh, I pay a lot of money and the captcha isn't working." Screw off, braha! Also, an enterprise customer signing up for the first time??? Call me suspicious.

That may be true, but I never noticed, because I had only been shown recaptchas very very few times in years! Now it’s obvious,
That's because you allowed Google to live in you ASS! for years so having to solve a Recaptcha wasn't needed much at all. :lol: !

With reCaptcha it was as simple as clicking the checkbox,
:think:


Bottom line, a bunch of damn Google drones that had their chains taken off and now running around like they had their heads cut off.


jhmmk.jpg

John connor
Banned user
Banned user
Posts: 1492
Joined: 2015-01-21, 05:06

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by John connor » 2020-04-22, 11:55

Moonchild wrote:
2020-04-22, 11:34
Ah. OK so they don't actually directly pay you for having users use it. You "earn rewards" in the form of tokens. Whether these tokens are worth money depends on the value they set and any exchange options you have.
The native medium of exchange on hCaptcha is the HUMAN Token (HMT), which can be used to request tasks within systems running on the HUMAN Protocol.
You should not assume that a HMT has intrinsic value beyond its utility within the system, and utility of a single HMT also varies over time based on a variety of factors.
It doesn't look like they are mining coins, but rather they are distributing problem solving tasks to end-users, tasks they obviously get paid for.
I guess that's one way to fund a project. Better than Google's BS IMO.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 28506
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: 28.9.0.x and reCAPTCHA

Post by Moonchild » 2020-04-22, 14:20

I looked into hCaptcha a bit more (and actually activated it on this forum ;-) ) and they work in 2 operation modes:
  1. Free for webmasters. this gives limited control over the captcha plugin and content. Its operation costs are covered by the content being problems solved by users for people who pay to have these problems solved. This is similar to Google's reCAPTCHA with the difference that you aren't donating the problem solving tasks to Google. When not using an invisible (JS-based) captcha, there is the option to earn rewards as a webmaster; human-brain solving is a valuable commodity.
  2. Paid service (which is what CloudFlare will be using). This gives a lot of control over the type and content of captchas. this is catered specifically to enterprises that want/need this control, advanced reporting, etc.
So none of that is BS, John.
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
Image

Locked