prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background Topic is solved

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by vannilla » 2020-02-19, 00:29

I regularily switch between Qwant, Ecosia, Ecoru and DuckDuckGo (please note: there is only one G in DDG) and nothing is redirected anywhere.
If the problem is that your searches are done througg DDG (notice the lack of a second G), the browser offers ways to change this behaviour. Keyword searches are an example.
You can also change the default engine using the relevant UI, though I can't really help you here myself since I don't use it (I forgot where it's located.) I do everything from the search bar.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-02-19, 04:40

Why is this topic existing at all. It's been a few years since Google was among the bundled search plugins and the one on the add-ons site IS the one that used to be built in.

It isn't our fault that you waited so long to switch off from an old and insecure version of the browser to find defaults changed and that they had to change because to Google we are simply deemed a "browser toolbar" and not elegible for search revenue.

Just grab the search plugin and set that as your currently selected search engine like the rest of us did a few years ago and be done with it or go away. This thread can serve no purpose outside of reigniting old arguments long RESOLVED WONTFIX'd.
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by coffeebreak » 2020-02-19, 11:09

Astara wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:38
I really don't want to add a plugin. I want to know why I can't change it in about:config
The notion that what you type in the address bar is, or used to be, redirected to a search engine (by some script?) independent of search plugins, is just plain wrong. AFAIK this was never the case. Keyworded bookmarks aside, it is and was done through search plugins, and when you type a search in the address bar the plugin for the default engine is what's used.

To change the default, there must first be a plugin installed for the desired engine. Concerning Google, I can install that plugin just fine and make it default if I choose. If YOU have a problem installing it, please re-read and take to heart the advice given by Moonchild here.


Astara wrote:
2020-02-18, 22:40
I don't see where in the UI, the choice is. [...]
I ask where it is configured to always go to DDGG -- such that I can change that to point to the search engine of my choice
The UI to change the default is in the Search Bar. To use it, temporarily make the Search Bar visible and use the Search Bar's dropdown list of search engines. Each engine listed is there because a search plugin was installed for it. Whatever engine you select to be visible in the Search Bar will be the default. And that selection will persist after the Search Bar is re-hidden.

If you prefer to use about:config, the corresponding preference is: browser.search.defaultenginename
The value entered should exactly match the search engine name that displays in the Search Bar (which comes from the ShortName in the relevant search plugin (.xml file)).

[Edit: see Tobin's post below.]

You (or anyone interested) might want to take a look at: Managing search engines in Pale Moon.
Last edited by coffeebreak on 2020-02-19, 12:31, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Moonchild » 2020-02-19, 11:59

Thanks coffeebreak.
The posts you linked to (which were written for a good reason! Especially the HowTo...) should provide all the information needed to know how this works.

As far as I am concerned this is solved, done and over with.
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-02-19, 12:00

There really isn't a default search engine as far as the code goes. Any mention of a default is just an alias for the CURRENT search engine as selected using the search bar. While that pref may work it also may not be honored at any given time because the search service largely doesn't rely on prefs except during initialization as well as creation of the search service db.

This has been the case for at least a decade or more.
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by coffeebreak » 2020-02-19, 12:42

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2020-02-19, 12:00
While that pref may work it also may not be honored at any given time because the search service largely doesn't rely on prefs except during initialization as well as creation of the search service db.
Thank you for that.
I should have checked more carefully. It seems that although changing the "default" in the UI does change the value shown in the pref, it doesn't work in the other direction: changing the value of the pref does not change what is selected in the Search Bar.



Edit/Add:
Above I posted that it had never been the case that typed text got redirected to a search engine via a pref, without using a search plugin. I realize now that wasn't accurate, so am mentioning it (it will not change anything else I said in the post).

The OP was presumably referring to the behavior of keyword.url, a very old preference (that by default appended Google's "I feel lucky" search to certain text and could be modified by the user to use other search engines). That preference was removed by Mozilla in Firefox 23, seven years ago. And it has not been present in Pale Moon since v24.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-24, 03:03

The behavior I was referring to, which I recovered was based solely only on the search snippit in /browser/search. It doesn't really matter, but it seems to look for the plugin with palemoon's name on it (perhaps joined with DDG). This behavior is what I've been used to for years. It likely stopped working with
some update that overwrote a search choice in that directory.
But in that directory, replaced PM's default engine in the file "duckduckgo-palemoon.xml" and added a rough
equivalent of what was needed:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<OpenSearchDescription xmlns="http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearch/1.1/">
<ShortName>Google</ShortName>
<Description>Google Search</Description>
<InputEncoding>UTF-8</InputEncoding>
<Image width="16" height="16">data:image/x-icon;base64,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</Image>
<Url type="application/x-suggestions+json" method="GET" template=https://suggestqueries.google.com/compl ... earchTerms}/>
<Url type="text/html" method="GET" template="https://www.google.com/search">
<Param name="ie" value="utf-8"/>
<Param name="oe" value="utf-8"/>
<Param name="newwindow" value="1"/>
<Param name="scclient" value="psy"/>
<Param name="safe" value="off"/>
<Param name="q" value="{searchTerms}"/>
</Url>
<SearchForm>https://www.google.com/</SearchForm>
</SearchPlugin>
I don't know if the suggest while you type is working as I didn't test it and don't use it, but the main function of searching from the address bar works again. I don't see that keywords were used to do this, but I may be wrong as I don't really understand how keywords worked.

Thanks so much for pointing out the trivvit of code I needed to change. I'll make sure to keep other copies of it so it is easily fixed if an update causes a problem.

I tried using !g before a search,l but found it went to DDG, and redirected there, advertising my search to them before going to google.

Would it really have been so difficult to answer my question?

As for PM having a default or not, I'm assuming the '_Palemoon' was appended to the DDG xml file for *some reason*?


Believe me, I really do appreaciate all the work you do to make this work, but I do alot of work on my own
to highly configure my setup to what is easiest for me. That's all I wanted to restore.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by josephd » 2020-02-24, 07:11

Astara wrote:
2020-02-24, 03:03
'_Palemoon' was appended to the DDG xml file for *some reason?
You may want to read the following concerning DDG relationship with Pale Moon.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4016&p=23775&hilit=ddg#p23683

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by coffeebreak » 2020-02-24, 11:49

Astara wrote:
2020-02-24, 03:03
the search snippit in /browser/search.
The .xml files in /Pale Moon/browser/searchplugins are for a fact the search plugins that come bundled with the browser. Did you rename the directory?
Astara wrote:
2020-02-24, 03:03
in that directory, replaced PM's default engine in the file "duckduckgo-palemoon.xml" and added a rough
equivalent of what was needed:
Are you saying that you replaced the contents of duckduckgo-palemoon.xml with the contents of a Google search plugin? That is very much unsupported. And also entirely unnecessary.

You can get the exact behavior you want without such manipulations.
  1. Paste the Google search plugin content (the stuff under the hide tag) into a new text document. Save it with the name google.xml without the .txt. This will be your Google search plugin.
  2. Open your profile, then quit the browser. Place google.xml into the searchplugins directory in your profile (if that directory doesn't already exist, create it). Restart the browser.
  3. Temporarily restore the Search Bar from the customize palette. In the Search Bar, click the arrow to display the list of search engines and select Google so that it displays inside the Search Bar. In the list it should now be bolded. This is what makes Google your default search engine and directs your searches to Google.
  4. Re-hide the Search Bar if desired. The selection of Google will be retained.
Setting the default this way, in your profile, will protect your choice from being overridden by updates.

At this point, please kindly reinstall the browser to restore the browser's own files to a proper and supported state.

Astara wrote:
2020-02-24, 03:03
Believe me, I really do appreaciate all the work you do to make this work, but I do alot of work on my own
to highly configure my setup to what is easiest for me.
With all respect, your manipulations of the browser do not appear to have actually made things easier for you. But rather, they seem to be the source of your problems.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-02-24, 17:02

Do not modify program files.
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-24, 20:20

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2020-02-24, 17:02
Do not modify program files.
Moonchild wrote:
2020-02-16, 21:48
Searchplugins are simple files with the necessary information to add a search engine entry to the browser natively. It isn't "code".
----
To keep things as neutral as possible, I'm going to call my choice of a 'default' search engine "MySearchEngine" or MSE. Right now it may be some form of google, but that doesn't mean it will be so for everyone or even me, in the future.
Please note, I tried adding the search plugin for google as suggested. For whatever reason, it gave an error which I posted above.

Then I got the impression that even if I did install the plugin, it would only affect the search employed by the 'search box', not in the Addr bar, is that true?

Some suggested I might try using a Keyword-Search so I could type in a keyword that would invoke the right engine, like "mse <string>". I didn't want to chance that I'd mess up a Keyword-search, and it seemed that if I typed a keyword, it messed up PM's ability to search my history and previous URL's, thinking the keyword was part of the search I wanted.

No, I wanted my default w/o redirectors or keywords to goto MSE, not DDG. I asked how to do this more than once but was told this wasn't possible w/o writing my own plugin. That may be true. If it is true it is because PM picks up its default by looking in the searchplugin dir and looking for one that ended in PM (?). Isn't that what decides the default plugin these days?

I may be mistaken (often am), but it seems no matter what plugin you choose to search with, the default would be taken from the search plugin dir under <PMbase>/browser/searchplugins/<plug>-Palemoon.xml, possibly looking for DDG in the <plug> part. So safest seemed to be simply to put the content of the search redirector in that file, since no other means seemed to be provided.

I'm sorry if you feel I modified program files, but, as Moonchild pointed out, it wasn't a code file, just an xml-config file -- which is how the browser is configured in the first place. Please don't think that I didn't try to find an easier way.

Sincerely,
Astara

P.S. The main reason that pushed me to look for a solution was DDG not opening the content of background tabs. It doesn't do this with default search engines, but was a huge time waster -- enough I had to look for some fix.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by vannilla » 2020-02-24, 20:39

The solution has been given multiple times but it seems you are intentionally missing it:
Step 1: update the browser to the latest version available.
Step 2: install the plugin
Step 3: reinstate the search box
Step 4: use the search box to switch to your installed plugin
Step 5: remove the search box
Step 6: use the address bar normally like you usually do
Don't skip any step and do them even if "it failed previously".
You never stated what version you are using (unless I missed it) and any errors might've been caused by being too old.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by coffeebreak » 2020-02-24, 21:47

Astara wrote:
2020-02-24, 20:20
I got the impression that even if I did install the plugin, it would only affect the search employed by the 'search box', not in the Addr bar, is that true?
No that is absolutely not true.
Astara wrote:
2020-02-24, 20:20
I may be mistaken (often am), but it seems no matter what plugin you choose to search with, the default would be taken from the search plugin dir under <PMbase>/browser/searchplugins/<plug>-Palemoon.xml, possibly looking for DDG in the <plug> part.
Again, that is NOT true.
The list of search engines displayed via the Search Bar comes from both the bundled plugins in the installation directory, and the self-installed plugins that live in your profile. The list, and picking a default, does not distinguish UI-wise, or in any practical way between the two sources. Also, be aware that the same plugin (based on the name inside the .xml, not the file name) cannot be installed concurrently more than once (if it's already in the installation directory, it cannot also be installed to your profile).

Astara, your trouble with installing the plugin from APMO is very likely caused by your monkeying around with the browser's internal files. PLEASE reinstall the browser.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-02-26, 09:53

BTW, I'm not ignoring anyone, just am most than a bit swamped with things competing for time.

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by moonbat » 2020-04-01, 10:25

Saw the whole thread just now and I still don't understand why on earth you would mess around with the browser's installation and profile directories for something as simple as this, after repeatedly being provided instructions by everyone else on this thread.
Adding search plugins isn't rocket science and you're needlessly making it so.
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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by Astara » 2020-04-01, 10:40

If you saw the whole thread, then you'd know that the plugins didn't work, which led me to trying other ways to repairing the problem.

Interestingly enough -- even though this search engine change to duck duck happened several years ago, my prior changes to the source dir to put in google as the default worked through several years of updates.

That's why I went with installing my defaults in the source dir -- as they seem to work even when plugins and upgrades don't.

I didn't even know about the noscript problems and disabling until 2-3 years after it happened, by then it was re-enabled. I try not to live on the bleeding edge when possible because I don't have time to continually readapt newer versions of things back to the way I want them. It's not that I don't update, but that I try to update things that are working for me, as infrequently as I have time for.


And yes, google is a turd that does do evil (not just to me, but also the internet). They are bad for the internet in the way MS was at its worst -- along the lines of embrace, extend-the-google-way, then ignore standards...

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Re: prob w/updates switch search & DDGG not opening tabs in background

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-04-01, 10:50

You're still wrong. The searchplugins sub-directory in the profile location is the ONLY way to MANUALLY install searchplugins properly. The only caveat is the application must be completely closed before hand. Also, this does not apply to Basilisk as it has the newer inferior searchplugin service and backend code because Mozilla.

If you are doing something to the application directory you are doing something wrong. No arguments, no pleas, no justifications. YOU ARE WRONG. If you persist then no one will ever help you.

But if you are installing searchplugins from the Add-ons SIte or Mycroft or from sites that advertise an opensearch plugin that you can just add from the searchbox dropdown.. That doesn't require MANUAL installation.

IF YOU'D LIKE we can just switch Pale Moon's search service out for Basilisk's then you literally can't do ANY of the things you want to EXCEPT install them through the opensearch service provider by way of javascript on sites or the drop down. I could change or remove the code right now.
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