All saved passwords gone

Users and developers helping users with technical Pale Moon issues (Windows and other non-Linux O.S.). Please direct questions about the Linux version to the appropriate Linux board.

Moderators: trava90, satrow

Forum rules
This board is for technical/usage questions and troubleshooting for the Pale Moon browser only. The main focus here is on Pale Moon on Windows. Please direct your questions for Linux, Android and Mac to the dedicated boards.
Technical issues and questions not related to the Pale Moon browser should be posted in "technical chat"
Please keep off-topic and general discussion out of this board, thank you!
Post Reply
Octopuss
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 515
Joined: 2015-01-26, 13:58

All saved passwords gone

Post by Octopuss » 2019-11-15, 08:22

I think this happens every few months, but I'm not sure at all.
Anyway, few days ago ALL my saved passwords were deleted from PM without any apparent reason.

Is this supposed to happen under some circumstances?

User avatar
moonbat
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 991
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Location: Australia

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by moonbat » 2019-11-15, 08:41

If you've ever cleared history from preferences->privacy, and it was set to also delete saved passwords. Anyhow, use an open source password manager for redundancy, I can recommend Bitwarden, it supports Windows, Linux, Android, iOS and has browser extensions for Chrome and Firefox (which for obvious reasons won't work with Pale Moon, being Webextensions).

Could maybe be also if it got overwritten during sync with a different installation, though that shouldn't happen.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Linux Mint 19.3 Xfce x64 on HP i5 laptop with 4 GB RAM, always latest versions of PM & Basilisk unless specified.

Octopuss
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 515
Joined: 2015-01-26, 13:58

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by Octopuss » 2019-11-15, 09:51

I didn't clean anything, nor am I using Sync. It just happened out of the blue (between sessions I presume, but I can't really tell because you don't notice immediatelly).

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 25409
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: 58°2'16"N 14°58'31"E
Contact:

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by Moonchild » 2019-11-15, 10:25

We're going to need a lot more information to go on other than "it randomly happens every few month, I think".
There must be a reason for this, but I'm afraid it might be something outside of the browser being involved. My own use of the browser (including several unstables) has never seen this happen in the last 10 years, nor has it been reported before like this to my knowledge.
moonbat wrote:
2019-11-15, 08:41
maybe be also if it got overwritten during sync
This doesn't happen unless you explicitly delete passwords on a synced computer, OR force a replacement reset in sync.
"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne
Image

User avatar
moonbat
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 991
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Location: Australia

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by moonbat » 2019-11-15, 11:02

Moonchild wrote:
2019-11-15, 10:25
This doesn't happen unless you explicitly delete passwords on a synced computer, OR force a replacement reset in sync.
Yeah, I meant the latter. It happened to someone else here within the last month as I recall - they had triggered a sync from a fresh install and it overwrote the existing sync data.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Linux Mint 19.3 Xfce x64 on HP i5 laptop with 4 GB RAM, always latest versions of PM & Basilisk unless specified.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 25409
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: 58°2'16"N 14°58'31"E
Contact:

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by Moonchild » 2019-11-15, 11:04

Off-topic:
moonbat wrote:
2019-11-15, 11:02
Moonchild wrote:
2019-11-15, 10:25
This doesn't happen unless you explicitly delete passwords on a synced computer, OR force a replacement reset in sync.
Yeah, I meant the latter. It happened to someone else here within the last month as I recall - they had triggered a sync from a fresh install and it overwrote the existing sync data.
A fresh install won't overwrite the existing sync data!
What happened with that person was that they had a fresh install on a new computer, synced the data to it, then started deleting data on the old computer, and those deletions being more recent got synced across to the new one.

Marking this offtopic since Octopuss is not using sync. Just as an aside.
"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne
Image

User avatar
adesh
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 801
Joined: 2017-06-06, 07:38

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by adesh » 2019-11-15, 19:34

Just a speculation, but it could be that some security software doesn't like Pale Moon passwords file and deletes it as part of its scan which is triggered once in a while.

User avatar
yereverluvinuncleber
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 266
Joined: 2017-12-06, 21:25

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by yereverluvinuncleber » 2019-11-15, 19:55

I have had the same happen once before and I had to restore the profile. I wasn't synching or doing anything strange.
I have, ever since, backed up the profile daily just in case it happened again - of course it hasn't happened since.
My skills technical & otherwise: VMS system manager 20 years. Fault Tolerance, clustering, Vax, Alpha and ftSparc. DCL, QB45, VB.NET, VB6, PHP, Javascript. Graphic Design, Project Management, CMS Web Design. DOS and Windows admin since 1985. Quad Audio Electronics update and repair. Rebuilding classic cars and motorcycles. Artist in watercolours. Historian. There's more.

somdcomputerguy
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 121
Joined: 2014-02-23, 17:25
Location: West Virginia
Contact:

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by somdcomputerguy » 2019-11-15, 21:46

Off-topic:
moonbat wrote:
2019-11-15, 08:41
Anyhow, use an open source password manager for redundancy, I can recommend Bitwarden,
I use KeePass.
:cool: -bruce /* http://somdcomputerguy.com */
'If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.'

Octopuss
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 515
Joined: 2015-01-26, 13:58

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by Octopuss » 2019-11-18, 20:04

Moonchild wrote:
2019-11-15, 10:25
We're going to need a lot more information to go on other than "it randomly happens every few month, I think".
There must be a reason for this, but I'm afraid it might be something outside of the browser being involved. My own use of the browser (including several unstables) has never seen this happen in the last 10 years, nor has it been reported before like this to my knowledge.
I know.
If I could provide more information I would, but unfortunately I cannot. I know it did happen to me in the past few years a few times, and always after a long time (like months I would say at least).
So, I know there probably isn't a solution since it doesn't seem to be happening to others, or not often enough for it to be a known problem (if it's PM-related, which I cannot judge given the lack of useful information).
:(

The only possible thing I can think of is after a very unfortunate appcrash which breaks more than just the session files, but to my uneducated head this doesn't make much sense either, because if a crash is serious enough, the entire profile usually seems to go down.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 25409
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: 58°2'16"N 14°58'31"E
Contact:

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by Moonchild » 2019-11-18, 21:00

Yeah, I'm sorry I can't be of more help -- All I can suggest here is to keep very regular backups if this is known to happen on your system.
"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne
Image

Octopuss
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 515
Joined: 2015-01-26, 13:58

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by Octopuss » 2019-11-22, 09:46

You mean the entire profile I presume.

User avatar
moonbat
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 991
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Location: Australia

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by moonbat » 2019-11-22, 11:02

Octopuss wrote:
2019-11-22, 09:46
You mean the entire profile I presume.
Yeah. Since it's all self contained in one directory, easy to run a batch job to compress it on a schedule (but only when Pale Moon isn't running).
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Linux Mint 19.3 Xfce x64 on HP i5 laptop with 4 GB RAM, always latest versions of PM & Basilisk unless specified.

coffeebreak
Moon Magic practitioner
Moon Magic practitioner
Posts: 2031
Joined: 2015-09-26, 04:51
Location: U.S.

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-11-22, 11:47

Octopuss wrote:
2019-11-22, 09:46
the entire profile I presume
Backing up the entire profile periodically is a REALLY good idea.
But be aware that there are tools for backing up only your passwords.
I use Password Backup Tool for that.

You might also want to check out FEBE, which AFAIU (I haven't used it) allows to back up everything or selectively as you choose.

User avatar
John connor
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1077
Joined: 2015-01-21, 05:06
Location: From RLG fly heading 053 intercept 315 DVV look for the SAM

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by John connor » 2019-11-23, 07:33

If this is Windows, you can navigate to a shadow copy and get your passwords back. If Pale Moon is anything like Firefox, then there are two files that store the passwords. And they are, key4.db and logins.json. These two files will be in your Pale Moon profile located in the:

Code: Select all

C:\Users\[your username]\AppData\Roaming\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon\Profiles\[your_profile_name].default
folder. Replace [your username] with your computer's username and your_profile_name with the profile name.

Just go to the control panel and under folder options and turn on show hidden files, folders and drives. Now go under C drive under users and go from there. Or to make life easier. Download and install Everything.exe and search for the two files key4.db and logins.json. If you right click the files in Everything.exe you can go to their locations. Then you can make a shortcut of your profile folder to the desktop. https://www.voidtools.com/downloads/

Now to the shadow copy part. Windows backs everything up whether you know it or not. You can use a program called shadow copy view and find an old, but recent shadow copy and find the old key4.db and logins.json files.

https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/shadow_copy_view.html

Now I can't get the find to work. So what you do is find a recent shadow copy at the top and then at the bottom navigate to your Pale Moon profile where the key4.db and logins.json files are located at. Right click and chose Copy Selected Files To. And chose the desktop. Then copy those two files back to your profile folder. That should give your passwords back.
Last edited by John connor on 2019-11-23, 07:39, edited 1 time in total.
Imagine if God created a creature that was bipedal, soft and cuddly, stood about 9 inches tall and sang. Then called him Gizmo.

User avatar
John connor
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1077
Joined: 2015-01-21, 05:06
Location: From RLG fly heading 053 intercept 315 DVV look for the SAM

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by John connor » 2019-11-23, 07:35

To backup your profile use this: https://www.palemoon.org/backuptool.shtml
Imagine if God created a creature that was bipedal, soft and cuddly, stood about 9 inches tall and sang. Then called him Gizmo.

User avatar
moonbat
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 991
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Location: Australia

Re: All saved passwords gone

Post by moonbat » 2019-11-23, 09:49

F22 Simpilot wrote:
2019-11-23, 07:35
To backup your profile use this: https://www.palemoon.org/backuptool.shtml
Not required for anyone that isn't scared to use Windows Explorer.

C:\users\username\appdata\roaming\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon\ contains the profile directory. All you have to do is copy the directory from here (multiple, if you've made multiple profiles) to a backup location while Pale Moon isn't running.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Linux Mint 19.3 Xfce x64 on HP i5 laptop with 4 GB RAM, always latest versions of PM & Basilisk unless specified.

Post Reply