Keywords mix-up

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Keywords mix-up

Post by Giraffe » 2019-10-26, 07:47

When I want Softpedia I type sp; for Sorts Direct it's sd.
If I've used sd, the next time I try sp it goes to Sports Direct and then does that until a restart.

Is there something wrong with the keyword facility? Is there anything that would improve keywords to get the action to where Opera used to be?
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-10-26, 09:30

I don't know where Opera "used to be" having never used it, but bookmarks set up like you described work fine for me.
softpedia-bkmark.png
sportsdirect-bkmark.png
Did you do any renaming of the bookmarks after you assigned the keywords?

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that in PM 28.* keywords can get "confused" after certain bookmark edits, such as swapping names between bookmarks, because each keyworded bookmark appears to need a distinct, unique name (not just a unique url). Assuming you've finished editing, try deleting the keywords from both bookmarks, then re-add them.

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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by moonbat » 2019-10-26, 11:13

If you frequently visit these sites, there's no need to even assign a keyword since the addressbar searches your history and bookmarks when you start typing. Keywords are useful for quick searches - when you're passing a parameter after the keyword to be substituted for %s in the URL so it can do a search.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-10-26, 11:38

moonbat wrote:
2019-10-26, 11:13
If you frequently visit these sites, there's no need to even assign a keyword
Off-topic:
I'd say that's entirely a matter of personal taste, decided by the individual.
Not everyone chooses the same search settings, nor uses search in identical ways, nor even necessarily saves search history. It may not suit your own style, but there is no reason not to use a keyword to simply open a bookmark, sans search, for those who do find it useful.

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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Moonchild » 2019-10-26, 11:45

Please know what you're doing. Keywords are not shortcuts for websites.
Keywords are for one thing and one thing only: to bypass your default selected search engine for searching from the address bar and use something specific; they are similar to !bangs in DDG, but then client-side.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-10-26, 12:11

Moonchild wrote:
2019-10-26, 11:45
not shortcuts for websites
I'm aware of what they are and use them heavily. Yes, for searches.
Nevertheless they can certainly be used the other way without problem.
If it's useful for someone, it's useful.

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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by moonbat » 2019-10-26, 13:11

coffeebreak wrote:
2019-10-26, 12:11
Nevertheless they can certainly be used the other way without problem.
If it's useful for someone, it's useful.
Point is that it's redundant. I saw a similar long thread on the Firefox subreddit over organizing the bookmarks menu - in both browsers the addressbar will match everything from history, bookmarks and currently open tabs by default so there's no need to agonize over how to organize bookmarks into folders or create extra work for yourself with keywords like this.
Arguably the tags field is more useful - you can tag similar bookmarks and then when you type the tag in the addressbar they will all show up in the suggestions.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-10-26, 14:43

moonbat wrote:
2019-10-26, 13:11
it's redundant.
Off-topic:
No doubt it is for you, given your preferred way to browse, search, and use bookmarks.
But as said before, other individuals have a similar right to organize their browsing in the way that best suits them.

This includes how they commit their time. No one needs to meet someone else's "efficiency standards" for how they use/manage search or bookmarks or anything else. People can freely organize bookmarks or not, use search suggestions or not, save search history or not based on their own situation and inclinations. This doesn't need to be justified, or meet another user's standards.

To wind up, this will be my last entry in this side topic. If I post again in this thread, it will be in response to the OP and his question.

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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-10-26, 14:53

Off-topic:
I think what moonbat is getting at is that certain features tend to be used and abused in ways that they were not intended. Such as the obligitory user having thousands of tabs open instead of using bookmarks and expecting sessionstore to flawlessly restore that session for years on end. Not that you CAN'T do it but it is well out of scope of what it was designed to do and more traditional or proper ways of doing things are more reliable.

By the same token, using a bunch of keywords rather than tags or good bookmark organization within a UI construct like the address bar which also has other sources of data for matching or navigating can just be not wise to use in that manor.. Just like your "we can do what we went" speech.. There are just things that aren't conducive to that because that is not how they were designed or intended to be used.

In any event, pointing that out is JUST if not MORE valid than you using and abusing stuff in ways and out of the scope it was designed for. So calm your ass and take a coffee break, coffeebreak. K?
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Moonchild » 2019-10-26, 21:39

If you use a keyword without using it as a keyword search, it will just match your history. Pressing enter then will go to the history entry that is at the top. The keyword system won't even kick in in that case.
So "sp" matches "sports" and there you go, sp sending you to the page you don't want.

So this has very little to do with user preference or the abundant abuse of browser features for unintended purposes, but rather thinking a certain feature does something it doesn't.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-10-26, 21:48

Moonchild wrote:
2019-10-26, 21:39
If you use a keyword without using it as a keyword search, it will just match your history. Pressing enter then will go to the history entry that is at the top. The keyword system won't even kick in in that case.
Ah. I don't save history, so that must be why those two bookmarks worked for me to open the respective sites.
Thank you for the explanation.

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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Giraffe » 2019-10-27, 09:47

coffeebreak wrote:
2019-10-26, 09:30
I don't know where Opera "used to be" having never used it, but bookmarks set up like you described work fine for me.
softpedia-bkmark.png
sportsdirect-bkmark.png
Did you do any renaming of the bookmarks after you assigned the keywords?

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that in PM 28.* keywords can get "confused" after certain bookmark edits, such as swapping names between bookmarks, because each keyworded bookmark appears to need a distinct, unique name (not just a unique url). Assuming you've finished editing, try deleting the keywords from both bookmarks, then re-add them.
Haven't renamed them at all. I'll try deleting and remarking, thanks.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Giraffe » 2019-10-27, 09:52

moonbat wrote:
2019-10-26, 11:13
If you frequently visit these sites, there's no need to even assign a keyword since the addressbar searches your history and bookmarks when you start typing. Keywords are useful for quick searches - when you're passing a parameter after the keyword to be substituted for %s in the URL so it can do a search.
The history is deleted when I close PM; also I've set it to search Bookmarks only, as I prefer it that way.

I don't use keywords for searching (not in the sense of a proper search) but as a shortcut to the site that I want, e.g. TS for Toolstation, SF for Screwfix, BQ for B&Q etc. 2 letters, hit Enter, done.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Giraffe » 2019-10-27, 09:57

Moonchild wrote:
2019-10-26, 21:39
If you use a keyword without using it as a keyword search, it will just match your history. Pressing enter then will go to the history entry that is at the top. The keyword system won't even kick in in that case.
So "sp" matches "sports" and there you go, sp sending you to the page you don't want.

So this has very little to do with user preference or the abundant abuse of browser features for unintended purposes, but rather thinking a certain feature does something it doesn't.
Right, pity that it doesn't - I got used to it doing what I prefer in several years with Opera.
"Softpedia" needs almost all of the letters to get rid of the dross - "soft..." not being uncommon - then there are about a dozen or so entries for specific pages in SP.
I hadn't realised that it matched History as it tends to do it at first use and I have History set to be deleted upon Exit.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Moonchild » 2019-10-27, 10:24

Giraffe wrote:
2019-10-27, 09:57
I hadn't realised that it matched History as it tends to do it at first use and I have History set to be deleted upon Exit.
If you clear history then there is no match the first time; the fact that it will fall back to the keyword is not and has never been purposeful behavior, it just "happens to work" that way. After you've visited a page with "sp" whether it be your "SPorts" fav site or another one (like a page about SPinach), the entry will be there and that is what will match.

You might be able to get your desired behavior by attaching keywords to bookmarks for the sites, instead -- and potentially disabling history search for matching typing in the address bar (Preferences -> privacy -> location bar)
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by letmeindude » 2019-10-27, 12:28

Why don't you use the colon or whatever key is near the Enter key on your keyboard. For example:

sp: for Softpedia
sd: for Sports Direct
or
sp+ for Softpedia
sd+ for Sports Direct

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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Giraffe » 2019-10-28, 09:19

History in Location Bar is already disabled :(
I could disable Remember History and Downloads, but that would, I assume, slow browsing when going back a page.
I don't know what is meant by "You might be able to get your desired behavior by attaching keywords to bookmarks for the sites, instead -- " - the KWs are already in the KW box of the bookmark and I didn't know that there was anywhere else for them.

As for using : etc., that needs 2 more keys.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-10-28, 10:33

Giraffe wrote:
2019-10-28, 09:19
I don't know what is meant by "You might be able to get your desired behavior by attaching keywords to bookmarks for the sites, instead -- " - the KWs are already in the KW box of the bookmark and I didn't know that there was anywhere else for them.
> I didn't know that there was anywhere else for them. They can be assigned to your search plugins. And I believe "keywords" can also refer to the internet keyword service that tries to make sense of partial urls and complete them (see: keyword.enabled & location bar search).

In any case...
Do you mean that you have Softpedia and SportsDirect bookmarked with keywords assigned as shown in the screenshot posted earlier ? If so, with History unticked for the Location bar, you should be able to get the result you want by typing the bookmark's exact keyword and directly hitting enter (ignore the dropdown stuff).

I've been trying it out myself in a separate profile with history remembered and a handful of keyworded plain bookmarks, and thus far each bookmark has opened reliably every time.

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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by Giraffe » 2019-10-29, 09:36

Yes, as shown in the screenshot.
I've just tried new tabs, alternating between sp and sd, and SP was OK until sd had been opened. Deleted the History (no restart) but it persisted.
When it's doing this, sp shows Softpedia at the top of the list but sd's url is already in the location bar and highlighted.
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Re: Keywords mix-up

Post by coffeebreak » 2019-10-29, 16:22

Giraffe wrote:
2019-10-29, 09:36
sp shows Softpedia at the top of the list but sd's url is already in the location bar and highlighted
Hm... That doesn't happen for me.
I'm using a new-ish, lightly customized profile with most back-end settings at their defaults. Have you tried comparing in safe mode, and with a new profile? (you can just use a portable version)

Here's what I see after typing sp or sd in the address bar after keywording those two sites' bookmarks:
sp.png
sd.png
If it helps, here are screenshots of some settings:
Softpedia bookmark w/keyword.
kw.b1.png

SportsDirect bookmark w/keyword.
kw.b2.png

History prefs (history is remembered).
kw.hx.png

Sanitize prefs (For the sake of testing, I chose to retain browsing history
so as to avoid history-less "fresh starts").
kw.sanitize.png

History suggestions are deselected.
kw.suggest.png

Some settings relevant to suggesting and autofilling/completing.
kw.aconfig.png

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