Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses? Topic is solved

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by yereverluvinuncleber » 2019-01-01, 02:29

Harvest Moon wrote: 9. And here ozzed suggested replacing x64 with x32 version
No, it was me and you still haven't done it. That is YOUR issue not being able to follow advice - just TRY it.

I am sure I explained you can run both versions and use the same profile, at least that is what I have been doing for the last few years with no issues. I just choose the version of PM that I wish to run 32/64.

Regardless, even if you choose to run it in a separate profile with no bookmarks, add-ons &c then that is a GOOD thing to do as that is what you are meant to do. You need to isolate the bug and you do that step by step. Otherwise how do you expect to be able to identify it? You are good at writing words but even better at avoiding doing what is necessary.

Now do this: install PM 32bit and use it for a while, no extensions, add-ons, new profile &c and see if the problem goes away. If it re-occurs then you have helped yourself identify that the problem is possibly systemic to your hardware and PM.

If it goes away then you can think about migrating to 32bit PM at your leisure.

No more excuses about why you can't do something - just do it! It MIGHT be the solution and if it isn't it will still help to diagnose. DO IT!
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Rickkins » 2019-01-01, 05:10

I switched to x32 some time ago, to see if it would help, it did not. Nothing does and nothing will until our exalted leader gets off his ass and solves the problem.

Of course, he first has to admit there is one...

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Moonchild » 2019-01-01, 09:54

Rickkins wrote:I switched to x32 some time ago, to see if it would help, it did not. Nothing does and nothing will until our exalted leader gets off his ass and solves the problem.
Of course, he first has to admit there is one...
I'm assuming this is directed at me, since I'm the project owner and lead dev.
There obviously is a problem for some users, but it's neither easy to reproduce nor clear what the exact cause is. As long as I can't reproduce the problem myself, I'll have to rely on clear and detailed information from others which.... has not come either -- which makes the existence of a problem hard to grasp. I'll admit to the possibility that there is a problem in the Pale Moon code, but nothing I've tried so far has given me anything to act on. So the status right now is "incomplete".
If you think it's this clear-cut that it just waits for an implementation of a solution as your tone suggests, then please by all means, point me to the cause in the code and I'll get right on it.
If you, however, are just delighting in telling me I'm not doing what is needed to solve this because the problem is elusive to everyone, then that means you're saying you can do it better -- by all means, grab UXP, fix the problem, and offer a code patch upstream to us like Open Source development is supposed to be done instead of standing there and telling me to get off my ass.
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by yereverluvinuncleber » 2019-01-01, 12:22

Rickkins wrote:I switched to x32 some time ago, to see if it would help, it did not..
I am not suggesting YOU switch to 32bit as I have no knowledge of you even having the problem, I was talking to Harvest moon. You and he may have different hardware and we don't know whether it will work for HIM. It is just a step in the diagnosis, as I know it worked for me on my limited hardware combination it is merely a suggestion. It needs to be tried.
Rickkins wrote:Nothing will until our exalted leader gets off his ass and solves the problem.
Of course, he first has to admit there is one...
I am sure he knows he has an arse without having to admit it first.
I'm not sure you need to revere him as your leader, lead dev. on PM perhaps.

He knows the problem exists and it seems to be a particular combination of hardware/software, for me it was the 64bit version of PM and I suspect my crappy integrated Intel GPU causing a bottleneck somehow or some other 64bit memory operation bottlenecked. I have a 64 bit o/s (Win7) but the machine may simply not be up to the job in certain respects. For me (and my system) the issue is contained within the 64 bit code base or possibly the method used to compile build the 64bit version of PM. Possibly a limitation in the compiler?
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Sajadi » 2019-01-01, 15:17

Rickkins wrote:I switched to x32 some time ago, to see if it would help, it did not. Nothing does and nothing will until our exalted leader gets off his ass and solves the problem.

Of course, he first has to admit there is one...
Pretty easy to complain - but it is hard to find a solution when the issue is not clear at all. If you think you can do better, i am sure Moonchild would greatly appreciate your help and effort in solving this ;)

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Moonchild » 2019-01-01, 18:20

Is it just me, or did my last post in this thread pass completely by everyone, considering posts after it pretty much state what I already said, in the 3rd person, as if I'm not here?
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Sajadi » 2019-01-01, 19:12

Moonchild wrote:Is it just me, or did my last post in this thread pass completely by everyone, considering posts after it pretty much state what I already said, in the 3rd person, as if I'm not here?
Sorry... in my case i really have overlooked it ;)

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by yereverluvinuncleber » 2019-01-01, 19:31

Moonchild wrote:Is it just me, or did my last post in this thread pass completely by everyone, considering posts after it pretty much state what I already said, in the 3rd person, as if I'm not here?
Who said that? Did I hear something?
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Rickkins » 2019-01-01, 20:56

Sorry guys, I tend to get a bit stroppy when it's past my bedtime.

All I really wanted to say was that I hope our fearless leader can find solutions to the issues at some point in the future.

And a Happy New Year to all.... :mrgreen:

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Harvest Moon » 2019-01-02, 06:41

Moonchild wrote:Is it just me, or did my last post in this thread pass completely by everyone, considering posts after it pretty much state what I already said, in the 3rd person, as if I'm not here?
Oh please no! Moonchild! I just was offline doing whatever people do on first day of a New Year!

I speak only for myself! I am VERY VERY pleased with the results of finding this browser Pale Moon, and its 64 bit version for my x64 bit machine!

I have the "competition" on the taskbar....
I only end up using them when some little code problem causes me to have to resort to using them to complete online orders, or send Email without slowly typing each letter, etc etc.

I'm sorry Moonchild!
I WISH I was good enough coder to do exactly what is needed to help out PMB to do its mission and provide us all with an alternative world view of the Internet that actually works great on x64 machines (that I need for their computing speed and abilities with other purchased programs I've gathered over the years!
--------
See also the detailed suggestion of how to take action to try to assist Moonchild in resolving this problem you also wrote in the thread:
Moonchild wrote:I'm assuming this is directed at me, since I'm the project owner and lead dev. [ [ :clap: ]my edit in ]

There obviously is a problem for some users, but it's neither easy to reproduce nor clear what the exact cause is. As long as I can't reproduce the problem myself, I'll have to rely on clear and detailed information from others which.... has not come either -- which makes the existence of a problem hard to grasp. I'll admit to the possibility that there is a problem in the Pale Moon code, but nothing I've tried so far has given me anything to act on. So the status right now is "incomplete".
If you think it's this clear-cut that it just waits for an implementation of a solution as your tone suggests, then please by all means, point me to the cause in the code and I'll get right on it.

[my edit highlight] by all means, grab UXP, fix the problem, and offer a code patch upstream to us like Open Source development is supposed to be done
-----------

New quote and response:

And of course to answer the nice person who is helping me along here:
satrow wrote:To enable viewing of kernel times in W10:- rt-click the Taskbar to open Task Manager > select the Performance tab > select CPU > rt-click inside the CPU graph and select "view kernel times".
So here is the link to show CPU with kernel times!

Now tell me---the elephant in the room with brain the size of a peanut compared to all the other great computer geniuses I'm communicating with....
what does these Kernel times show me? (Oh by the way...I just turned on computer so maybe its not acting up yet...I guess I SHOULD re-post a second image below showing the kernel when I experience the sluggish typing problem, correct?

But <jumping up and down for joy here> that I'm able in Windows 10 to find all my old computer tools once again that Microsoft felt it important enough to hide away from me...

Screenshot 1 (normal CPU and Kernel) https://i.postimg.cc/rmTY2CBS/Thank-you ... oes-it.jpg

Screenshot 2 (not edited in yet---give it an hour or so and I'll compare the times myself too..but not posted yet...--step by step everyone!)

Someone knows how to give easy instructions to those of us who are computer coder "wanna-bees" Easy! it works! Thanks ...here is result...
(hey Found the missing "show the desktop" button! Thanks for helping me learn W10!)
( :thumbup: :thumbup: Found my missing "resource monitor" --can't make it stay in the task bar...but at least I can post it note how to get it and use it when I need its help again!)

-----------

New quote and response to vyesyenversnenvsesasayer

You wrote:
yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
Harvest Moon wrote: 9. And here ozzed suggested replacing x64 with x32 version
No, it was me and you still haven't done it. That is YOUR issue not being able to follow advice - just TRY it.

I am sure I explained you can run both versions and use the same profile, at least that is what I have been doing for the last few years with no issues. I just choose the version of PM that I wish to run 32/64.

Regardless, even if you choose to run it in a separate profile with no bookmarks, add-ons &c then that is a GOOD thing to do as that is what you are meant to do. You need to isolate the bug and you do that step by step. Otherwise how do you expect to be able to identify it? You are good at writing words but even better at avoiding doing what is necessary.

Now do this: install PM 32bit and use it for a while, no extensions, add-ons, new profile &c and see if the problem goes away. If it re-occurs then you have helped yourself identify that the problem is possibly systemic to your hardware and PM.

If it goes away then you can think about migrating to 32bit PM at your leisure.

No more excuses about why you can't do something - just do it! It MIGHT be the solution and if it isn't it will still help to diagnose. DO IT!
Some discussion, please? Happy to have yereverluvinuncleber responding to my lengthy post!

1. I'm sorry if I contused you (yereverluvinuncleber) with Ozzed.thanks for the correction.

2. this sentence
I am sure I explained you can run both versions and use the same profile, at least that is what I have been doing for the last few years with no issues. I just choose the version of PM that I wish to run 32/64.
Makes me think that you assume I'm the person who began this posting...I just joined it (trying not to hijack this post as that is against some rule I read somewhere...or was it in another Windows 10 help section...I'm in so many trying to figure out what is going on I'm losing track so
APOLOGIES to all if I mix up the help desks there and here!

3. No I never knew you can keep the same profile!

and have BOTH versions of PMB on the x64 machine..... I'd have done it by now if I thought that was possible... And if I read somewhere how to do it...
4. Searching for the instruction manual of PMB to figure out how to do that...

5. A big thank you to yereverluvinuncleber for suggesting this!
-----

Several other posters on January 1st lead me (without quoting whole thread here!)

to believe I may have a link that someone might find useful...

I have a question!

Does everyone who has this problem :

1. Used to use Windows 7 on their exact same hardware and recently (or some time ago before update to PMB 28 ver)
upgrade their OS to Windows 10?

or

2. Are still using Windows 7?

Why asking?

My developer sense is tingling (nothing new...I'm back in Pascal/Basic/COBOL/ALGOL (yeah that old here)...and saying that maybe its something that is reacting to left over bits and pieces of Windows 7 OS code that the latest Microsoft update has not removed properly when updating to Windows 10? Or are still using Windows 7 with its latest updates...
3. I clearly remember that this problem did not manifest itself until one of the last (October or so?) updates from Microsoft that you cannot "undo" ---I think it announced that fact...so you can look back on history and see which one about September or October 2018 did that...

My Windows 7 stopped booting up for a totally different problem...so I only witnessed this problem before I scrapped Windows 7 and went for a cleaner install overlay of Windows 10 with all data intact...

Does that make sense to anyone here?

Just trying to help in the new world...

ready to learn more....But slow ocean liner here ...takes power and nimbleness I no longer have to change course and become more adaptive to the new faster coders who are making PMB and all other apps etc etc in new XHTML Code (I only wrote in HTML---so don't let me near the coding button without that "X" memorized upgrade to my memory!)
I keep quoting this line:
XHTML (eXtensible HyperText Markup Language) is a reformulation of HTML in XML syntax. While very similar in many respects, it has a few key differences. ... In contrast to the leniency of HTML parsers, XML parsers are required to fail catastrophically if they encounter even the simplest syntax error in an XML document.Sep 20, 2006
Ok, thanks to everyone for reading my lengthy words...

I keep trying to keep up with everyone here...

I enjoy learning more and more...so appreciative of those willing to share their knowledge ...not going to waste...I'll try to figure this problem out...

(Oh and the other posting I did...I may have solved the not printing problem...but haven't had the computer on for long enough to lose printing ability in PMB so I have not marked that thread as solved...I probably should go over there and type this sentence in there too...but announced it here first as I thought of it just now on 1-2...slow , ocean liner here remember?)

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Moonchild » 2019-01-02, 06:54

For the record, I'm using Windows 7 for my main workstation (and clearly can't reproduce the issue) so if others who have the issue are on Win 7, it's likely not Win 7 related.
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Hmm81 » 2019-01-02, 06:55

In my case, I'm almost 100% positive it has to do with the memory leak. I noticed also 27.9.4 starts acting strange and suddenly sluggish/unresponsive (basically the same symptoms I have with ver. 28, although occurring much less frequently as ver. 28), that it's because some detached/ghost window, I just never realized before why it was doing it, because it was a much rarer phenomenon.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Moonchild » 2019-01-02, 07:14

Oh I'm pretty sure it has something to do with ghost windows and the cycle collector, as well. But what -exactly- is still the question.
Unfortunately it's not that straightforward to tweak because none of the involved CC configuration variables have preferences to change them.
By default, the CC uses incremental collecting which can be disabled by setting dom.cycle_collector.incremental to false - I just looked at the timing involved and the incremental slice of it may simply be too short (Mozilla set it to 5 ms) which -could- result in too much overhead. But that's just a bit of speculation right now.

People suffering from the issue could see if flipping that pref changes the behavior for them or not. It could be better or could be worse if there is a change - please report.
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Harvest Moon » 2019-01-02, 17:43

Hi everyone and Moonchild especially nice replies!
Moonchild wrote:For the record, I'm using Windows 7 for my main workstation (and clearly can't reproduce the issue) so if others who have the issue are on Win 7, it's likely not Win 7 related.
Thanks for reporting! I have assisted other web sites with various problems and one I found out was occurring as many were migrating to Windows 8 at the time and I still was on 7 so it was clearly a code problem having to do with W8 only. So its just something I think of when all else fails to reproduce the problem!

and thank you too for this:
Moonchild wrote:Oh I'm pretty sure it has something to do with ghost windows and the cycle collector, as well. But what -exactly- is still the question.
Unfortunately it's not that straightforward to tweak because none of the involved CC configuration variables have preferences to change them.
By default, the CC uses incremental collecting which can be disabled by setting dom.cycle_collector.incremental to false - I just looked at the timing involved and the incremental slice of it may simply be too short (Mozilla set it to 5 ms) which -could- result in too much overhead. But that's just a bit of speculation right now.

People suffering from the issue could see if flipping that pref changes the behavior for them or not. It could be better or could be worse if there is a change - please report.
I remember (how long ago was it?) various discussions about those ghost windows and cycling ---and I think that was solved or at least I was not effected by those...so that is why I thought of that...and only thing different (other than various lost programs I have to reinstall here) is that I'm using W10 for first time now.

Believe me....on Microsoft and other Windows sites I started huge discussions (under a different avatar/user name--so don't waste time looking for Harvest Moon there)---about the benefits and detriments to me switching over to Windows 10 or trying for a clean install of my old Windows 7...time and the weight of others won out...

But...

If this is the result of my switching to W10--- just for the record on my part---I will still stay W10 and with PMB as the alternatives I find too menu/deficient and clunky for my continued daily use with the number of Emails and communications I do---I'd much prefer having PMB (but need one that types faster---and closing down whole computer I lose many windows and tabs I have to remember and search or bookmark them for the close down---its a pain--lot of work just to "reset " everything---so that my Print problem (other thread sorry ) and this problem vanishes for a little while...

I don't know if I would try switching prefs yet---I do have other issues (within W10 due to my not being familiar with everything in an new OS) and so I don't want to further complicate things if I peek or poke something in the registry or wherever prefs are hiding here right now...If that turns out to be the accepted workaround...I'll certainly post again and ask for specific instructions on how to do the pref change.

I'll be patient while everyone here works on this ---hoping the ones who are smarter in coding and debugging site problems will assist you in this....
AND...
The reason I quoted the huge quote from you above is to thank you for a bit of computer analysis you provided in one sentence there plus the very valuable and informative link to the UXP code page! I can follow a lot of it...but some is new to me....so there goes the reason for me to keep my fingers on the text typing and not trying to code until I'm up to speed...

Thanks again!

And one mention for this post:
Hmm81 wrote:In my case, I'm almost 100% positive it has to do with the memory leak. I noticed also 27.9.4 starts acting strange and suddenly sluggish/unresponsive (basically the same symptoms I have with ver. 28, although occurring much less frequently as ver. 28), that it's because some detached/ghost window, I just never realized before why it was doing it, because it was a much rarer phenomenon.
I agree with Hmm81 that this is a rare phenomenon if I keep my times on the Internet PMB short....But me, like everyone today, keeps having these programs that cease to function if the Internet is cut off---so they tend to depend upon having most of the code or functions only avilable while onine rather than offline (I miss the old program style---that is why I keep so many of the old ones alive from version to version that allow me to work offline for hours without any problems ----ever...just me and the computer---way it used to be back in the early programming days!

Also, not knowing what term to search for (unsuccessfully) is why I've had this problem since October 2018 change over to W10 but did not report it as was waiting for someone else to report the same problem!

And also--now I know a good term for this is "sluggish" as pressing a key should give instant response to put a letter on screen as it does with my WordPad....but like everything in computers...I can figure a workaround until someone else finds the solution to a problem...then I can thank them and continue on as normally I would have... :-D :thumbup: :wave:

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by PalleP » 2019-01-02, 19:28

Moonchild wrote:For the record, I'm using Windows 7 for my main workstation (and clearly can't reproduce the issue) so if others who have the issue are on Win 7, it's likely not Win 7 related.
Again an example of why these serious treads should be kept on topic without all the clutter. Noone has the energy to read all the posts so important info simply drowns.
It is also amazing how people can read only the last post in these long treads and then have all the wise words and smart solutions. :roll:

I have been following the treads about this bug intense, since I find it very frustrating that my, for many years, loyal PM has started to annoy me instead of being a pleasure to use.

I have here written the few known facts about the bug, these are made by reading all the posts and also by testing what I can test:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20882&start=60#p158411

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Moonraker » 2019-01-02, 21:48

Good grief.some of the posts on this thread would make tolstoy grin with pleasure.I have neither the patience or inclination to read such postings and im sure the typists fingers must be nearly falling off lol.

i hope a solution is provided by someone with far more patience than me. :o
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Harvest Moon » 2019-01-02, 23:23

Hi Everyone!

First of all thanks to PalleP for reminding me of his earlier post (sorry I may write like Tolstoy, but Unfortunately, I do not have the time to gather and sift through all the material to pull out the very important postings....
PalleP wrote:
Moonchild wrote:For the record, I'm using Windows 7 for my main workstation (and clearly can't reproduce the issue) so if others who have the issue are on Win 7, it's likely not Win 7 related.
Again an example of why these serious treads should be kept on topic without all the clutter. Noone has the energy to read all the posts so important info simply drowns.
It is also amazing how people can read only the last post in these long treads and then have all the wise words and smart solutions. :roll:

I have been following the treads about this bug intense, since I find it very frustrating that my, for many years, loyal PM has started to annoy me instead of being a pleasure to use.

I have here written the few known facts about the bug, these are made by reading all the posts and also by testing what I can test:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20882&start=60#p158411
So thanks for the link again to your post stating the obvious (for all to examine) of how and when this particular bug occurs...
I concur with your observations! (I recall hazily: "concurring does not make a solution" ---I'm sure someone here has a signature I've seen with something saying that and concluding with "....providing that you solve the problem, etc etc"...bad memory---too long ago here)

And of course...Moonraker (great handle there..as 007 Fan/& the Dr Who avatar, wish I grabbed that one)... stated:
Moonraker wrote:Good grief.some of the posts on this thread would make tolstoy grin with pleasure.I have neither the patience or inclination to read such postings and im sure the typists fingers must be nearly falling off lol.

i hope a solution is provided by someone with far more patience than me. :o
From where I got the Tolstoy reference earlier stated...and I'm sorry to try everyone's patience..but to grab a thought out of my longer text...I would have written earlier with less data, but I was assuming someone else was seeing this too and would start off with the correct search terms and correct terminology "sluggish" is at least better than anything I could imagine to write here...and create this thread.

Back to the drawing board to figure out what I can do next (opening less tabs and sharing the work with the dummy Browsers---so that I don't upset PMB and I can use it longer before it "jams" (is that good, non-computer lingo word for what is occurring?)

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Splat » 2019-01-03, 02:33

I've been messing with things since the past two?...three? updates ago when I saw a definitive slowdown loading pages. Today I started looking around again. Everything has been back to my regular settings in PM and Windows via stored image that I created before starting to mess with settings. Now, I don't know if this is just a fluke but I disabled the Intel Delayed Launcher. It is part of Intel's Rapid Storage Technology which I need for my SATA controller. Windows was loading the IDL upon bootup. I disabled it. PM is back to loading pages....dare I say normally, or maybe just vastly faster than before? I know not everyone is running Intel chipset(s) but there is a marked difference I cannot deny. Moonchild, any thoughts on this? Thanks.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Moonchild » 2019-01-03, 09:18

No thoughts on the Intel Delayed Launcher, because I'm unfamiliar with the technology involved.
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by anvakl9 » 2019-01-03, 10:58

The problem appears to be the setting

Code: Select all

browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers
This setting is supposed to be used when pressing Back and Forward buttons but PM used it to undo cosed tabs(Ctrl+Shift+t). The defult for this setting is -1 so, if you have 4GB or more RAM upto 8 closed tabs are still in memory.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Open about:config and set
a) browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers -> 1
b) browser.cache.compression_level -> 0 (this is just to fill up the RAM faster)
2. Open reddit.com , palemoon.org , and forum.palemoon.org in three separate tabs.
3. Open Task Manager to moniter RAM.
4. Goto reddit tab(with new layout) and keep scrolling till the RAM fills-up to about 2.5GB to 3GB.
5. Close the reddit tab and observe the RAM usage in Task Manager. RAM usage will not go down.
6. Now close another tab and observe the RAM usage in Task Manager. RAM usage will go down.

If browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers is set higher you will have to close even more tabs to reduce RAM use.

Patch would be to ignore this setting for closed tabs and remove them from memory immediately.

Work around till a patch is released would be to set browser.sessionhistory.max_total_viewers to 0.

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