Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses? Topic is solved

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by satrow » 2018-12-21, 21:22

Rickkins wrote:You may have missed the part where I pointed out that Speccy no longer properly reports AMD's latest chips properly, and the current temp is in fact 43°C (according to CPUID HWMonitor)
Yes, I missed out the part that looked like your sig. How hard is it to paste data in and then and then correct it ;)

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Rickkins » 2018-12-21, 22:09

satrow wrote:
Rickkins wrote:You may have missed the part where I pointed out that Speccy no longer properly reports AMD's latest chips properly, and the current temp is in fact 43°C (according to CPUID HWMonitor)
Yes, I missed out the part that looked like your sig. How hard is it to paste data in and then and then correct it ;)
Yea, I could have done that, but I chose to post the info verbatim and disclose the inconsistency separately....

Frankly, to my way of thinking, it made more sense.(in terms of presenting unadulterated facts)

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Octopuss » 2018-12-22, 19:27

There must be something seriously wrong somewhere.
After just a few hours, even organizing bookmarks and scrolling between them is sluggish as crazy. After restarting the browser, it's buttery smooth.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Rickkins » 2018-12-23, 12:17

There is of course one thing we need to keep in mind: In it's current form, Palemoon is very much a 'young' browser and very much under development. Thus, it is quite conceivable that many of these annoyances will disappear in the future...

...now don't tell me I'm not a 'half full' kinda guy.....!!!~

Merry Christmas....

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Moonchild » 2018-12-23, 12:22

Octopuss wrote:There must be something seriously wrong somewhere.
Undoubtedly. But whether it is the browser, which works fine for most others, or not, is the real question.
"Son, in life you do not fight battles because you expect to win, you fight them merely because they need to be fought." -- Snagglepuss
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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Sajadi » 2018-12-23, 13:20

It would be interesting to see where the problems most of the time occurs.

I for my part own only Windows 7 and Windows 8 machines - i can not really confirm a full slowdown over longer times. Using here the 64 Bit operating system variants and the 64 Bit unstable variant of Pale Moon. Have constantly 20-30 tabs open, for example Facebook, Hotmail, Twitter... and sadly also Google mail - the browser runs for hours each day - everything rather fluid and stable.

Perhaps Windows 10 must be blamed for this, as Microsoft constantly "abuses" the user with various patches of more less or more intense impact - which also constantly creates issues with program stability. I have read a lot of complaints about Windows 10 also in other boards.. for example the Amiga emulator "Winuae" - where the developer has ongoing trouble with Windows 10 users as different updates have been resulting in different kind of breakages of the emulator software, which ranges from crashes towards heavy artifacts.
Last edited by Sajadi on 2018-12-23, 13:26, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by PalleP » 2018-12-23, 14:20

Moonchild wrote: Undoubtedly. But whether it is the browser, which works fine for most others, or not, is the real question.
I find it hard to believe that it is anything but the browser. A summary of my tests, and the many posts and treads that have been on this forum shows:

1) It will happen on any Windows version.
2) PM v27.x does not have this problem.
3) Other browsers do not have this problem.
4) The problem has been reported by people using different security software, and different graphics adapters.

It seems obvious that the problem is a combination of PM v28.x and the local hardware/software, otherwise everyone would suffer from it.

For my part the "total freezing" has not occured since I stopped using Gmail, but now I experience that I can easily stress PM when it has been running for some hours.
This means that if I open a lot of new tabs quickly (eg. from a search engine) PM will stall and cpu usage goes skyhigh. I then have to close some of the tabs to get the other pages loading, but even this give me a sluggish PM.
So I always end up restarting the browser. PM will be lightening fast after the restart, and all the previous pages loads without delay.
To me this indicates a memory leak, but I am not a programmer so I can only speak of user experience with other memory leaking programs.
I may also add that this is the only problem I have with my pc, everything else runs fast and smooth. I have also tried PM v27.x again, and it runs smoothly for days.

I therefore suggest that this thread is kept on tropic, in order to locate the culprit for this problem. CPU temperature ect. does not belong in this thread and should be posted elsewhere.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Rickkins » 2018-12-23, 16:26

PalleP wrote:
Moonchild wrote: Undoubtedly. But whether it is the browser, which works fine for most others, or not, is the real question.
I find it hard to believe that it is anything but the browser.
Well of course it's the browser, that obvious to anyone looking in objectively.

I remain confident however that in time the brain trusts of this project will find ways to improve the performance of this browser to rival any other browser. It just doesn't happen overnight. :geek:

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Sob__ » 2018-12-23, 16:46

PalleP wrote:This means that if I open a lot of new tabs quickly (eg. from a search engine) PM will stall and cpu usage goes skyhigh. I then have to close some of the tabs to get the other pages loading, but even this give me a sluggish PM.
That's to be expected, loading and rendering page requires resources, it's not an easy thing to do. Especially nowadays, when a lot of them are plagued by resource-hungry javascript frameworks. If you open just one and it takes few seconds to fully load and render, it's not that bad. Open ten of them at the same time and the wait will seem endless. And then you never know how many scripts run on that page and keep eating up cpu. They can be for example periodically changing ads, which is another different problem, because they often like to play videos now. Have these in few background tabs and they will easily bring multicore cpu to its knees.

But if PM stays sluggish or keeps eating up cpu even after you close those pages, then yes, that's a problem.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by PalleP » 2018-12-23, 16:58

Sob__ wrote: That's to be expected
No, that is not to be expected. You have obviously not read the posts about the problem before you post.

1) All the previous pages loads without delay after a PM restart.
2) Other browsers, including PM v27.X, can easily open the same pages also after having run for several hours.

Octopuss

Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Octopuss » 2018-12-24, 08:25

I know nothing much can be done if Moonchild is unable to reproduce any of this, but it's really frustrating when I (and others) am experiencing these slowdowns on daily basis :(

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by PalleP » 2018-12-24, 09:21

Octopuss wrote:I know nothing much can be done if Moonchild is unable to reproduce any of this, but it's really frustrating when I (and others) am experiencing these slowdowns on daily basis :(
I totally agree.I just had to restart PM again.
I have spend a lot of time trying to find some connection between the PM usage and the problem.
The only connection I find is ofcourse Gmail and then the time PM has been running. There is absolutely no problem when PM has just been (re)-started, even heavy graphics sites open without problem.
After some hours heavy graphics or script sites will kneel PM, and the problem gets worse the longer PM runs. Clearing the cache will not help.
As a temporary solution I used PM v27.x, but gave up since it is clearly not up to date anymore and a lot of pages do not display correctly.
My hope is that someone with just brief programming skills has the problem, and can figure out what causes this frustrating problem.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by tecnochango » 2018-12-27, 21:56

PalleP wrote:
Moonchild wrote: Undoubtedly. But whether it is the browser, which works fine for most others, or not, is the real question.
I find it hard to believe that it is anything but the browser. A summary of my tests, and the many posts and treads that have been on this forum shows:

1) It will happen on any Windows version.
2) PM v27.x does not have this problem.
3) Other browsers do not have this problem.
4) The problem has been reported by people using different security software, and different graphics adapters.

It seems obvious that the problem is a combination of PM v28.x and the local hardware/software, otherwise everyone would suffer from it.

For my part the "total freezing" has not occured since I stopped using Gmail, but now I experience that I can easily stress PM when it has been running for some hours.
This means that if I open a lot of new tabs quickly (eg. from a search engine) PM will stall and cpu usage goes skyhigh. I then have to close some of the tabs to get the other pages loading, but even this give me a sluggish PM.
So I always end up restarting the browser. PM will be lightening fast after the restart, and all the previous pages loads without delay.
To me this indicates a memory leak, but I am not a programmer so I can only speak of user experience with other memory leaking programs.
I may also add that this is the only problem I have with my pc, everything else runs fast and smooth. I have also tried PM v27.x again, and it runs smoothly for days.

I therefore suggest that this thread is kept on tropic, in order to locate the culprit for this problem. CPU temperature ect. does not belong in this thread and should be posted elsewhere.
what a luck, to me total freezing ocurred with facebook, outlook, youtube...and as you tell cpu usage goes skyhigh so I must force close the browser process to restart again...is there any way to download previous versions?



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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by therube » 2018-12-28, 02:42

PallelP wrote:I experience that I can easily stress PM when it has been running for some hours.
At times, I can do the same.
At times, I can run days on end without issue.

In these circumstances, for me, it seems to be particular websites that cause the issue rather then the browser itself.
I have seen the same in other "legacy" browsers.
(Not too much experience with FF Quantum, so can't really say about that.)
I open a lot of new tabs quickly (eg. from a search engine) PM will stall and cpu usage goes skyhigh
That has been mentioned before, in one of these threads. I don't recall who said it though.
I had never seen that before, but since that thread, I have seen that occur - once.
To me this indicates a memory leak
You call it a "memory leak", I attribute it to particular web pages.
It may be part both or neither at all.
I therefore suggest that this thread is kept on topic
Then how about some pertinent details? [Not directed to any one, but to all.]
I'd start with... #tabs, #windows, CPU usage, RAM usage (of PM, not of the OS in general), particular sites opened, extensions used, whether the same happens in a new, clean Profile ... otherwise, without something someone is able to point to to help duplicate...
Sob wrote:[quickly opening tabs causing browser hang...] That's to be expected
Taking time, using resources, that is to be expected.
Totally hanging the browser is a different situation, & that is not expected (which you did basically also say).

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Cassette » 2018-12-30, 15:31

I too have experiences sluggishness in the browser, but it doesn't seem to be related to high CPU usage or high RAM usage. Pale Moon's RAM and CPU usage were both low. Still, the interface itself was slow like when you hover from one tab to the next there is a delay before the next hovered tab highlights. Upon restart it's instant. It's going to be hard to pin down because the time it takes to happen is not predictable and can take a long time. I will try to gather more information the next time it happens and see if I can find anything useful.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by satrow » 2018-12-30, 18:19

Cassette wrote:I too have experiences sluggishness in the browser, but it doesn't seem to be related to high CPU usage or high RAM usage.
Pale Moon's RAM and CPU usage were both low. Still, the interface itself was slow like when you hover from one tab to the next there is a delay before the next hovered tab highlights. Upon restart it's instant. It's going to be hard to pin down because the time it takes to happen is not predictable and can take a long time. I will try to gather more information the next time it happens and see if I can find anything useful.
For what must be the third time in this topic, I'll suggest using TaskMan to check for kernel usage when this happens.

Obviously you'll need to have TaskMan running, Performance tab > View > Show kernel times. There'll be a new red line showing and it won't be easy to see so full screen is best to get an estimated %. Anything above ~5% might be detected as lag, most people can 'feel' it from ~8%, above ~10-12% and the PC is barely usable.

Excess kernel usage is often caused by 'bad' drivers, maybe a bottleneck causing occas. 'logjams'.

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by Harvest Moon » 2018-12-31, 14:21

Lots of questions for everyone!

1. New to rules (I read somewhere in the 4 pages of posts (not 100% every single word! but I get the jist of it) that someone wants to keep this topic open for more posts about it...
Should I do a new topic posting on this? Or just continue here...? Opinions? (read more details below)

2. This is my current topic I came here to post and find a solution to! .....

Re: I cannot use the File/Print or File/Print Preview I get unspecified error
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21131&p=158528#p158528

3. I have tried to follow the suggestions...maybe I"m not good enough a computer user of Windows 10 to follow the instructions the way I could on Windows 7!

4. I agree with Sajadi who commented about Windows 10 saying its loading us up with updates and other things that make problems...I"m brand new to Windows 10 (only since October 2018) as Windows 7 died/refused to boot up....so transferred data only to Windows 10 (company refuses to transfer 100% or clone drive so sadly to get a brand new HDD actually SSD, installed with Windows 10, I lost a lot of programs and other things....)

By Sajadi:
Sajadi wrote:It would be interesting to see where the problems most of the time occurs.

I for my part own only Windows 7 and Windows 8 machines - i can not really confirm a full slowdown over longer times. Using here the 64 Bit operating system variants and the 64 Bit unstable variant of Pale Moon. Have constantly 20-30 tabs open, for example Facebook, Hotmail, Twitter... and sadly also Google mail - the browser runs for hours each day - everything rather fluid and stable.

Perhaps Windows 10 must be blamed for this, as Microsoft constantly "abuses" the user with various patches of more less or more intense impact - which also constantly creates issues with program stability. I have read a lot of complaints about Windows 10 also in other boards.. for example the Amiga emulator "Winuae" - where the developer has ongoing trouble with Windows 10 users as different updates have been resulting in different kind of breakages of the emulator software, which ranges from crashes towards heavy artifacts.

I'm not knowing where everything is and Cortina is not helping me and Googling it does not help me and (got a suggestion so I do have "old control panel" on my desktop which helps a bit!

5. Now here s where I 100% agree with the original poster Ozzed about PMB's strange sluggishness...
I find that the keys to enter letters will slow down!
(this is in addition to my printing problem noted in my post I linked above in Number 1)
It may take up to 3-4 seconds to enter each painfully slow letter...
Closing computer and restarting does not fix it right away...
Have to "cool" it down (NO I checked operating temperature on a widget or thingy I got and its not doing CPU running hot or anything out of ordinary from Windows 7 operation ---unless Windows 10 needs something more---and SSD drive too! So I cooled down Laptop's heat sink requirement when I did that new install when I got the Windows 10 (Sorry for so much Windows 10 talk on PMB site...maybe others noticed it too?
Maybe its a Windows 10 recent installation/update that I don't see on the Windows 10 community site I also posted some of this there to ask them....

6. New number to describe my unit in case its needed...I don't own this tread and just happened to see it as I was going to post new stuff in my existing thread today....
Now I"m doing a lot with older (i5, 8 GB RAM laptop that held Windows 7 for 8 years) using it now as a desktop with newer screen,keyboard, mouse attachments--saved getting a new computer until I figure out how to dual boot Windows 7 to fix the Windows 10 deficits...maybe that would let me use PMB under Windows 7---but I'd hate to be doing that
in April 2020 when they stop support for Windows 7 from Microsoft!


7. Whew! GIve everyone a break....

8. Here is what and why I wrote today!

I'd like to try what satrow suggested here:
satrow wrote:
Cassette wrote:I too have experiences sluggishness in the browser, but it doesn't seem to be related to high CPU usage or high RAM usage.
Pale Moon's RAM and CPU usage were both low. Still, the interface itself was slow like when you hover from one tab to the next there is a delay before the next hovered tab highlights. Upon restart it's instant. It's going to be hard to pin down because the time it takes to happen is not predictable and can take a long time. I will try to gather more information the next time it happens and see if I can find anything useful.
For what must be the third time in this topic, I'll suggest using TaskMan to check for kernel usage when this happens.

Obviously you'll need to have TaskMan running, Performance tab > View > Show kernel times. They'll be a new red line showing and it won't be easy to see so full screen is best to get an estimated %. Anything above ~5% might be detected as lag, most people can 'feel' it from ~8%, above ~10-12% and the PC is barely usable.

Excess kernel usage is often caused by 'bad' drivers, maybe a bottleneck causing occas. 'logjams'.
I don't know how to do this "Task Man"..sounds interesting ....how to find it and get it downloaded with out getting "PUP"s Potentially Unwanted Programs from the download site like CNET always does so I never use them anymore....

OK! Reading this over again and again after I posted it....
I think i "Get this"......am I correct in assuming "Task Man" is not a program its shorthand computer people's terms for Windows "TASK MANAGER"?
I don't know where its been hiding on Windows 10---Searched Web... Found I can get it "free" From Microsoft store, but the version they had THERE (not anyone's fault here for not explaining how to do this) but it says old info like "updated for Windows 8"....Not even saying 8..1 or Windows 10 so I'm not taking that "Free" download as I don't want to mess up my messed up Windows 10 more!

Here is error link I found on Google...but not ever a good Google searcher!
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/free-task-manager/9wzdncrdcdnp#activetab=pivot:overviewtab

Found Task Manager finally on Windows 10! Thanks for suggesting I use it...

But see attached image..... I don't see
Cassette wrote: "Show kernel Times"
Image

Whew! Good I keep reading what I type to make corrections before someone writes back to me about "Task Man" is not a purchasable program!

9. And here ozzed suggested replacing x64 with x32 version
yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
Ozzed wrote: My experience is that during the beginning of the day, the browser is mostly fully responsive, though with some minor stalls and "microstutter" in the scrolling, but as the day progresses, the situation worsens with scrolling being smooth but the browsers coming to a complete stop every 3 seconds (scrolling completely stalls, then resumes to being smooth again for 3 seconds, then stalls for a second, then smooth for 3 seconds, rinse and repeat).
I had something similar with PM 64bit, I switched to the 32bit version and it went away completely. The 64bit operation appeared to swamp my puny hardware, same with FF 64bit. I have run PM 32bit version permanently and since then the problem has never returned. You could at least try it...
[I stayed to read this topic that maybe "stuttering" might be how professional computer people like you describe my "slowness" with typing.... It should not take me 10 minutes to slowly type "a.......[posts the a] n......[posts the b] d.......[posts the d]"

[In case I didn't mention it in the long worded stuff above

How did you type so much? If computer is slowly printing letters on browser?

Easy!

I cut and posted all links and quotes to my old friend "Word Pad" and when most of the spelling and other problems are all fixed...THEN I copied it over to the posting section of this thread and made slowly the final corrections...

[The following paragraphs is for answering Ozzed's go back to x32 suggestion: others can skip it--go to number 10]
(not that I"m really handy in accomplishing this and moving all the bookmarks and etc over to the x32 bit and finding that something really doesn't "move" over only when I've erased all signs of x64 and can't go back unless I start all over again

[remember my nice/mean computer help company here..they transferred all the "data" for me which included my bookmarks for PMB but took away all the browsers so I had to reload the PMB back in October...

But back in October, everything ran ok...(except for the dumb "nut" in the Windows 10 system, the one who sits in the chair between the chair and the keyboard ! lol ok joke there)....

10. I tend to write a lot as not knowing a lot I have to fill in the blanks when something like this happens!

Have a Happy New Year Everyone on the PMB Forum!
Harvest Moon

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Re: Palemoon becoming more sluggish as the day progesses?

Post by satrow » 2018-12-31, 15:19

To enable viewing of kernel times in W10:- rt-click the Taskbar to open Task Manager > select the Performance tab > select CPU > rt-click inside the CPU graph and select "view kernel times".

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