PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

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adreamingandroid
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PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by adreamingandroid » 2018-11-12, 11:31

I have been using PM for quite sometime now and it's been very good. However the version I am currently using is not as good as it has been in the past. There's a lot times were it just hangs, cue little blue circle or I just get the message 'not responding' and this is across varying websites. Just this morning I went to delete a login details for BBC iplayer as I created a new account, clicked on the relevant option in PM and it just hangs, then I get a message saying that a script is being unresponsive, I tried to stop the script, nothing, couldn't close PM even with task manager. In the end I rebooted my laptop.
I recently got rid of noscript as I had a message suggesting that this add-on was causing issues with PM but nothing has changed.
I have the following add-ons installed, maybe one of these is causing the hanging/freezing issue, can anyone advise ?
abprime 1.0.7
block content0.2
crush those cookies
decentraleyes 1.4.2
downloads statusbar 15.2.0
encrypted web 5.1.5
fireshot
i dont care about cookies 2.9.3
scriptblock 1.0.0
ublock origin updater
I am running win 7 ultimate 32bit SP1

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by PalleP » 2018-11-12, 13:35

This is a known bug that has unfortunately not been solved, but the problem can be avoided by not using Gmail (for me at least).
Find the thread here (yes, it is very long): viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20573

Also, you should not use "I don't care about cookies". Find the thread here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20553

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by back2themoon » 2018-11-12, 22:46

Also, you are using uBlock Origin Updater without the actual uBlock Origin? What's the point?

Encrypted Web is no longer maintained (it's not in the Add-ons site any more). There's a suggestion here for an alternative that is supposed to work (HTTPS Always - I haven't tried it).

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by Hmm81 » 2018-11-13, 20:22

Is the gmail problem even being looked at? 28.2 doesn't seem to fix it after a very brief test. If not, I think I'm going to have to move over to firefox at some point. Not sure how much longer I can stay on 27.9.4, as security vulnerabilities start to pile up.

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by Moonchild » 2018-11-13, 21:42

Hmm81 wrote:Is the gmail problem even being looked at? 28.2 doesn't seem to fix it after a very brief test.
As long as there is no way to reproduce whatever the perceived problem with gmail is, there's no way forward.
The thread pointed to is filled with a lot of speculation but nothing conclusive.
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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by PalleP » 2018-11-13, 22:11

Moonchild wrote: The thread pointed to is filled with a lot of speculation but nothing conclusive.
It is related to Gmail which somehow stayes active after closing. You have got several different crash reports and other stuff.
What else do you expect from normal users??? Speak up if you need further info.

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2018-11-13, 22:18

I don't see any issues with gmail even with the redesign.. It surprisingly runs really well and that is saying something for a Google Site outside of Chrome.
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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by Moonchild » 2018-11-13, 23:11

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:I don't see any issues with gmail even with the redesign.. It surprisingly runs really well and that is saying something for a Google Site outside of Chrome.
I can only concur with this. Nothing "stays open" (still unclear in what way it supposedly stays open after closing the tab...) and it runs smoother than their previous incarnations of their webmail.
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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by adreamingandroid » 2018-11-14, 02:18

PalleP wrote:This is a known bug that has unfortunately not been solved, but the problem can be avoided by not using Gmail (for me at least).
Find the thread here (yes, it is very long): viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20573

Also, you should not use "I don't care about cookies". Find the thread here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20553
Ok I have removed the i dont care about cookies.
if it is causing problems, maybe it should be removed from the add-on's page for PM ?

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by adreamingandroid » 2018-11-14, 02:23

back2themoon wrote:Also, you are using uBlock Origin Updater without the actual uBlock Origin? What's the point?

Encrypted Web is no longer maintained (it's not in the Add-ons site any more). There's a suggestion here for an alternative that is supposed to work (HTTPS Always - I haven't tried it).
my thinking regarding the updater is that i would be notified when a version of ublock comes out that is compatible with the version of PM that i am using.
have removed encrypted web, will try HTTPS everywhere.
as for the gmail issue, i dont login into the web version of gmail, but i do use my gmail login for youtube, don't know if that makes a difference ?

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by Hmm81 » 2018-11-14, 03:48

Moonchild wrote:
Hmm81 wrote:Is the gmail problem even being looked at? 28.2 doesn't seem to fix it after a very brief test.
As long as there is no way to reproduce whatever the perceived problem with gmail is, there's no way forward.
The thread pointed to is filled with a lot of speculation but nothing conclusive.
I've replicated the issue numerous times almost without fail on Linux and Windows, with or without addons. Palle seems to have replicated the problem too. All it takes is simply logging into gmail. Then you log out. Close the old gmail tab, and than open another new tab. Do an about:memory and you see a "Detached" window with gmail still open. It never goes away, you can try doing all sorts of memory cleanups, etc. and all you get is a ghost window. I'm not sure if it's just a memory leak or not, but the problem doesn't exist for firefox, and it doesn't for palemoon 27.

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by PalleP » 2018-11-14, 11:19

Maybe the dev's with "PM 28 running surprisingly well with Gmail" could explain why this stays in memory after Gmail has been closed, what it is, and if it has any importance.
This Gmail leftover does not exist in PM 27
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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by Moonchild » 2018-11-14, 14:22

What you are likely seeing is GMail using background processing and not cleaning up after itself (after all, in Chrome this is done in a separate process and when the tab is closed the process simply shuts down). Ultimately, this kind of bad web programming will lead to ghost windows/containers that use memory in a web browser without performing any real function.
Sure, this will contribute to performance loss over time, but should most certainly not lead to freezes or "not responding" messages, since detached code like that can't really do anything.

Of note: I see the same leftover resource usage by GMail in Firefox Nightly, either when having a larger number of tabs open (keeping content processes alive) or when having e10s switched off.
Last edited by Moonchild on 2018-11-14, 14:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by PalleP » 2018-11-14, 14:44

Well, I just checked v27 again and I was wrong, the same leftover is present there.
So, since v27 do not have the Gmail problem it must be something else.
Can you suggest anything I can do to supply further info?

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by Moonchild » 2018-11-14, 14:54

It may still be related. The problem is that this touches on the very complex machinery of the garbage collector and especially cycle collector. My guess is that you are losing a lot of performance because of this rather large chunk of JS that becomes detached/ghosted, and that the CC will dutifully try to collect and purge, but can't (because GMail has effectively leaked its worker pool when you closed its tab). So the performance issue in that case isn't necessarily what had run before still being active, but rather that the cleanup crew works too hard to try and dump it.

I can see if I can detect this and then tell the CC to not try and collect the objects every cycle but throttle back on the cleanup -- that should help avoid some bad performance issues when this kind of leak happens.
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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by back2themoon » 2018-11-14, 15:06

adreamingandroid wrote:my thinking regarding the updater is that i would be notified when a version of ublock comes out that is compatible with the version of PM that i am using.
have removed encrypted web, will try HTTPS everywhere.
That notification is probably never going to happen because uBlock Origin Updater is not meant for that. Its job is to silently auto-update your already installed "legacy" version of uBlock Origin (because it will not auto-update on its own).

About the other extension: the link I gave you pointed to this. The suggestion is to use "HTTP Always" (I haven't tried it) which should work with Pale Moon, and not "HTTPS Everywhere" which will not work.

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by PalleP » 2018-11-14, 16:17

Moonchild wrote: I can see if I can detect this and then tell the CC to not try and collect the objects every cycle but throttle back on the cleanup -- that should help avoid some bad performance issues when this kind of leak happens.
You should keep in mind that v27.x does not have the Gmail problem so something done in v28 has introduced it.
I can help you test any changes you may make to cure the problem.

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by adreamingandroid » 2018-11-14, 17:31

back2themoon wrote:
adreamingandroid wrote:my thinking regarding the updater is that i would be notified when a version of ublock comes out that is compatible with the version of PM that i am using.
have removed encrypted web, will try HTTPS everywhere.
That notification is probably never going to happen because uBlock Origin Updater is not meant for that. Its job is to silently auto-update your already installed "legacy" version of uBlock Origin (because it will not auto-update on its own).

About the other extension: the link I gave you pointed to this. The suggestion is to use "HTTP Always" (I haven't tried it) which should work with Pale Moon, and not "HTTPS Everywhere" which will not work.
In my naivete I thought it would the program would notify me of a new/compatible version. I didn't realise I needed ublock installed for that to happen, so I do appreciate the advice/clarification.

That aside theres still some very questionable moments with PM hanging, one of which is when i go the permissions manager tab, cue blue circle and wait for whatever bit of script that will or wont run properly, that i do not get in the slightest. how can PM have issues opening up one of it's own features ? permissions manager tab has been open for at least 5 mins and i still cannot open the passwords manager tab or highlight any of the sites listed

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by Hmm81 » 2018-11-14, 18:44

Moonchild wrote:It may still be related. The problem is that this touches on the very complex machinery of the garbage collector and especially cycle collector. My guess is that you are losing a lot of performance because of this rather large chunk of JS that becomes detached/ghosted, and that the CC will dutifully try to collect and purge, but can't (because GMail has effectively leaked its worker pool when you closed its tab). So the performance issue in that case isn't necessarily what had run before still being active, but rather that the cleanup crew works too hard to try and dump it.

I can see if I can detect this and then tell the CC to not try and collect the objects every cycle but throttle back on the cleanup -- that should help avoid some bad performance issues when this kind of leak happens.
Thanks for looking into the problem.

That makes sense. Because even when I close out all tabs, and just have a blank tab open, I still see odd CPU usage spikes from palemoon for no reason which must be from garbage collection. Still I would rather that proper garbage collection occurs than throttling back the garbage collection, because when you use the "verbose" setting in the about:memory you can see subject lines, a bit of email content that were read and email addresses from the detached window. I would rather that not be the case since it could lead to security issues...

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Re: PM 28.1.0 32bit not responding/freezing

Post by back2themoon » 2018-11-14, 21:57

adreamingandroid wrote:how can PM have issues opening up one of it's own features ?
It can if an extension you installed is interfering for example, or if your profile is corrupt. It's working as expected for everyone. See how things work in Safe Mode (Menu/Help/Restart in Safe Mode). It temporary disables all extensions, although problems can still be caused by the disabled, installed extensions.

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