Palemoon hangs - not responding

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90Obadiah
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Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby 90Obadiah » Sat, 22 Sep 2018, 09:22

I've noticed that Palemoon struggles/freezes on a few pages i've encountered

Namely
https://news.google.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City

Whereas the other two popular browsers load these two pages almost instantly, Palemoon seems to freezes the entire browser for around 10 secs until the page has finished the loading.

I've experienced the same thing with either enabled or disabled add-ons and in Safemode (uBlock Origin/Updater, Lull The Tabs, Greedy Cache)

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therube
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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby therube » Sat, 22 Sep 2018, 15:30

news.google.com has been mentioned before, google news.

That particular wikipedia page, without looking at the sizes of the pictures, I'm going to say it is the sizes of the pictures ;-).
(Actually, they're smaller then I would have thought.)


On my end, yes FF 62 is a bit quicker on those two, but I'm not seeing anything "annoying" in PM 28.1.
Last edited by therube on Sat, 22 Sep 2018, 15:36, edited 2 times in total.

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90Obadiah
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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby 90Obadiah » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 06:17

Depends how you define something as annoying

If a browser's not responding when it tries to load certain pages, for me this constitute as annoying and ultimately problematic

and i'm not talking about speed here.

Forgot to mention that i'm on a 32-bit Palemoon 28.1.0, Windows x86
Last edited by 90Obadiah on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 06:19, edited 1 time in total.

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satrow
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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby satrow » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 08:48

Which locale do you have set for Google News, what's the URL? Any difference if you select an alt. locale?

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90Obadiah
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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby 90Obadiah » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 09:10

US, URL is https://news.google.com/?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en and yes I've tried the UK (https://news.google.com/?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB:en) but again same results, Palemoon hangs while loading the page.

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby Moonchild » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 09:16

The Wikipedia page for New York is very long with a ton of photos (some high resolution) and a boatload of embedded links (500+ internal and unknown external). That simply takes a lot of processing to parse, composite and render. If you are on low-end hardware it will stall the browser while it processes 1.5 MB of markup text, almost 1MB of JavaScript and almost 150 images. It's noticeably slow to load on my workstation, too.
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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby rabnbeinn » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 09:21

I can confirm these 2 pages also hang for me, only when loading. The pages still load in about 2 to 3 seconds and once loaded no hangs.

PM28.1.0(x64)
Win8.1(x64)

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Tomaso
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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby Tomaso » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 09:46

I've noticed PM28 hanging and not responding on a few pages too.
The troublesome pages always seems to contain a fair number of images, so I guess it might be related to this bug?:
https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/UXP/issues/625/

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby Moonchild » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 09:47

Tomaso wrote:so I guess it might be related to this bug?:
https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/UXP/issues/625/


No, unlikely. that bug is a hang caused by having many thousands of images in the layout.
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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby konstantx » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 09:54

90Obadiah wrote:US, URL is https://news.google.com/?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en and yes I've tried the UK (https://news.google.com/?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB:en) but again same results, Palemoon hangs while loading the page.

I don`t have hangs on this page i m using PM 27.9.4

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby prosecco » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 13:07

therube wrote:news.google.com has been mentioned before, google news.

That particular wikipedia page, without looking at the sizes of the pictures, I'm going to say it is the sizes of the pictures ;-).
(Actually, they're smaller then I would have thought.)



Maybe the cross-requests from the browser to other servers takes too much time and slows down the whole thing. This is what happens with ads and trackers, BTW. If I surf with Pale Moon without any extension, the loading of any webpage in a tab takes a really long time.

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby prosecco » Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 13:10

Tomaso wrote:I've noticed PM28 hanging and not responding on a few pages too.



Same here. However this only seems to have started recently. Before this, PM was much faster in loading than Firefox. Now it's much the same again. Could some extension be the culprit?

I seem to remember - when I first used PM 28.0.1, it was very fast, like almost instantaneous.

Actually tab loading time seems now (PM 28.0.1, no extensions except for ABPrime right now) to be more like FF when I was using it a few weeks ago, which can take take anything upto about 30 seconds to a minute (I use FF and PM alternatively, depending on mood and other factors). This is/was true for FF 52.xESR, the last ESR release before 60.2ESR (which is also the new FF model, forgot its name), I am not sure it also goes for 60.2ESR.

System here is x86, BTW.

Edit - I use Linux atm, not Windows, so maybe this should have been posted in the Pale Moon for Linux forum, but obviously this is an issue which is OS-independent.
Last edited by prosecco on Sun, 23 Sep 2018, 18:14, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby Tomaso » Mon, 24 Sep 2018, 16:26

I've seen it happen a couple of times now, on pages that hardly contained any images at all.
The last time it occurred was in a forum..
There weren't any ads present, but the thread contained one single embedded YouTube video.
So, prosecco might be on to something regarding cross-requests.
Last edited by Tomaso on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby pompste007 » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 19:37

I can also confirm "hanging occasionally/ not responding" in Palemoon 28.1 32 bit.
Thought I had a bad mouse clicker at first but I replaced mouse with a new one and occasional hanging and not responding still exist.
Never had this problem in 27.9.4
Been tolerating this issue for the past 2 weeks--trying to see if issue was temporary or not.
Hopefully the next update will address this issue since others are apparently having same issues.
Other than that----Great browser!
Last edited by pompste007 on Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 20:04, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby nord1 » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 23:45

90Obadiah wrote:US, URL is https://news.google.com/?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en and yes I've tried the UK (https://news.google.com/?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB:en) but again same results, Palemoon hangs while loading the page.


What OS are you using? I'm on Windows 7 Ultimate, 32 bit and NYC Wikipedia loads fine. Google News, no matter what browser, loads like a slug, but it does load.
-N-
Dell D420 Latitude, Windows 7 Ultimate (32-bit) PaleMoon 28.1.0, AvastFree, MwalwareBytesPremium, Scotty is On Patrol

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby Moonchild » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 11:24

pompste007 wrote:Been tolerating this issue for the past 2 weeks--trying to see if issue was temporary or not.
Hopefully the next update will address this issue since others are apparently having same issues.


Nobody so far has provided any reproducible problem with clear steps or specific situations that points to a specific problem in the browser code. Some people experience the inherent slower processing of very heavy pages with UXP because, simply put, its JS engine is twice as complex to cater to ECMAScript standards. A less complex (and less capable) browser may be faster on the same pages, but at the same time won't be able to render many pages correctly. It's a trade-off.

That being said, I have not seen any specific hangs or not responding messages in my daily browsing for the past half year on UXP and the URLs given also don't actually hang the browser. A brief pause on ridiculously large pages with tons of content is to be expected. Processing that much data isn't free. To put things in perspective: the wikipedia page listed is 1.5 MB of markup text -- that is the same amount of text as half the King James English bible (which is about 3MB characters); all of that being markup text meaning it is text and layout/link tags that all need to be parsed and processed. Add about that much again in scripting that needs to be parsed, processed, compiled and executed. Then decoding and rendering 150 images on top. Will that take time? absolutely. Is it noticeable? Of course it is! Does it hang the browser? Not in my experience.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby pompste007 » Fri, 12 Oct 2018, 05:03

Moonchild wrote:
pompste007 wrote:Been tolerating this issue for the past 2 weeks--trying to see if issue was temporary or not.
Hopefully the next update will address this issue since others are apparently having same issues.


Nobody so far has provided any reproducible problem with clear steps or specific situations that points to a specific problem in the browser code. Some people experience the inherent slower processing of very heavy pages with UXP because, simply put, its JS engine is twice as complex to cater to ECMAScript standards. A less complex (and less capable) browser may be faster on the same pages, but at the same time won't be able to render many pages correctly. It's a trade-off.

That being said, I have not seen any specific hangs or not responding messages in my daily browsing for the past half year on UXP and the URLs given also don't actually hang the browser. A brief pause on ridiculously large pages with tons of content is to be expected. Processing that much data isn't free. To put things in perspective: the wikipedia page listed is 1.5 MB of markup text -- that is the same amount of text as half the King James English bible (which is about 3MB characters); all of that being markup text meaning it is text and layout/link tags that all need to be parsed and processed. Add about that much again in scripting that needs to be parsed, processed, compiled and executed. Then decoding and rendering 150 images on top. Will that take time? absolutely. Is it noticeable? Of course it is! Does it hang the browser? Not in my experience.


Thanks for your great detailed information!
Great browser also!

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Re: Palemoon hangs - not responding

Unread postby bogdanz » Mon, 15 Oct 2018, 04:53

Does anyone know if it's possible to make loading 'async'? In other words, allowing the user to navigate the content of a page while it loads, and then once everything does load, for the layout to reset to what it is supposed to be. It takes about 3s to load the applicable Wiki page for NYC on Pale Moon, but then the entire page is responsive as I browse and scroll through it. On the other hand, Edge loads the same page in 1s, but then lags while I browse. I wonder if a user can select between the two behaviors?


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