High GPU usage from 28.0 and onwards

[Ozzed]

Hi!

Ever since upgrading to version 28.0 my GPU usage looks like the below image



With 27 and below, it used to be a fairly flat line on the low end. If I run PM in safe mode, it doesn't happen, so it's reasonable to assume that it's some setting or addon causing it, but I have no idea where to start. My addons are as follows:

[yami_]

If I run PM in safe mode, it doesn't happen

Safe Mode disables hardware acceleration.

[kduncan5]

Might help to explain why my wife's computer kept getting the dreaded "Display driver stopped responding and has recovered" message. Went back to v27.9.4 and the problem went away. We both run Adblock Latitude, uBlock Origin, and she runs Stylish. Those add-ons didn't change between 27 & 28. I suspect it wasn't the add-ons causing her problem.

[Fedor2]

You forgot to point your model?
Apparently new Pale Moon got newer hardware acceleration, which now badly compatible with old vidocards.

[RJARRRPCGP]

the dreaded "Display driver stopped responding and has recovered" message.

Off-topic:
That usually means a video card with the frequency too high or wrong/corrupted VBIOS.

[Psycho-A]

Apparently new Pale Moon got newer hardware acceleration, which now badly compatible with old vidocards.

And why would they do that? Pale Moon was always be preferred browser for the old hardware, and what's the alternative now? I can't see it!

I have a PC with Pentium D 3.4 Ghz, 2 Gb RAM and Radeon HD 2600 XT card on my kitchen, and PM got really slower with 28.0 update. I could freely watch the Youtube video in 1080p before, but now it's totally stucking with 90% CPU load, 720p60 is unplayable with freezing at one frame, and 720p30 loads CPU to 60% (versus 25% before) and is choppy.

[back2themoon]

Sorry, but you can't expect any current, updated software to keep running smoothly on very old hardware using obsolete drivers. That Radeon card is just way too old (10+ years) and I wouldn't be surprised if it's the cause of your issues. It also obviously does not support VP9 video decoding, which YouTube now uses a lot. You could consider replacing it with a newer, budget card.

It seems that as of today, AMD's cards still do not fully decode VP9 so if you mostly watch YouTube videos, there's the GT 1030 (but avoid the half-speed DDR4 disguised variant like the plague - only the GDDR5 is to be considered).

Your ancient CPU and limited RAM also do not help, so you get the idea... Yes, PM27 might have worked better on your system but PM28 uses an updated 'engine' which will obviously work better with modern hardware. Not talking cutting-edge here, just not *that* old. I'm also on a 10-year old system (better than yours though) but the video card is new so it performs fairly well.

[Psycho-A]

Are there no any ways to keep compatibility with old hardware but use new features for new one? At least it might be done using some extra preferences in about:config for users that needs this. Removing some benefits at the expense of newer ones is not a good way of the software development. I'm leaving in Russia, and still there are lots of old PCs here that uses hardware like I described. And if it *can* decode video fast and smooth enough *in fact*, so why it's needed to take away this ability? New browser loads this hardware's resources with stuff that absolutely unneded here, or just doesn't use all of its potential! Why do I need to update hardware "for nothing"? I'm easily watching 1080p60 H264 video in offline player with full hardware acceleration and no frame losses, so don't tell me that 2-core CPU with 3.4 GHz is "ancient" for that. And my videocard loads maximum of 30-50 percent during this.

[back2themoon]

You are only talking about user hardware and software, and keep forgetting the third major player here: the Web, which uses its own standards, codecs etc. Guess what? They are way past 1997.

Also, playing something offline on a media player is very different than online streaming in a browser, so your example is irrelevant. Perhaps you can find a workaround for YouTube, just don't expect miracles. The hardware is old, and its drivers are old. It's not a "date" problem, it's a "supported standards" problem.

Like I said, I also use old hardware. But there's a limit to everything.

[back2themoon]

...I assume you have tried with a clean profile? (Not Safe Mode).

[Night Wing]

I'm easily watching 1080p60 H264 video in offline player with full hardware acceleration and no frame losses, so don't tell me that 2-core CPU with 3.4 GHz is "ancient" for that. And my videocard loads maximum of 30-50 percent during this.

Your processor speed is great, but your 2 GB of memory is "bare bones minimum" especially when you're online.

[Fedor2]

I have a PC with Pentium D 3.4 Ghz, 2 Gb RAM and Radeon HD 2600 XT

Welcome, i use very such PC but with athlon x2 2,4 Ghz, (VIA K8 mboard seems) online video plays fine on 720, i shall try on 1080. Now i am at another pc, more powerful: athlon x2 3,5 Ghz,2gb ram, ATI Radeon HD 4200, trying 1080 on 28 - freezing, then the same video on 27.9.4 - playback is fine. So this is it, i shall try restore 28 video system for the old hardware.

[Moonchild]

Are there no any ways to keep compatibility with old hardware but use new features for new one?

Often this is not possible. For example, to leverage acceleration on new cards through DirectX 11, specific texture formats are used. Those texture formats are only supported on newer GPUs. To also support the older hardware, would mean using a completely different way of texturing and compositing to hardware accelerate the same features. While it is theoretically possible to keep and implement all possible code paths and all types of rendering in software to support all hardware under the sun, it is not feasible to do so, let alone maintainable. Even if done so, the "old" acceleration techniques would still not be very useful because they are not performant enough and not compatible with certain requested effects/modes, which would then have to be specifically emulated for older hardware meaning new code paths need to be written for that too for something that is likely going to be buggy and slow.

The only way to keep the necessary balance is to target (relatively) current hardware when developing.
Although Pale Moon as a side effect has been particularly performant on older hardware, it has never been one of the project's goals. That has not changed. It aims to be efficient at what it does -- and using shims and workarounds to cater to very old hardware is not efficient.

[Fedor2]

I have tested 1080 on older PC, and it plays fine, i think here the monitor resolution comes into account. 1280x1024 one at the older but higher 1980x1080 seems at newer. Conclusion is not to install high resolution monitor at the old PC.

For example, to leverage acceleration on new cards through DirectX 11, specific texture formats are used.

DirectX 11 acceleration is present in PM 27 too, meanwhile in 28 i have found that it has been added many multithread child\parent stuff, may it be the cause of the drop in performance?

[Moonchild]

meanwhile in 28 i have found that it has been added many multithread child\parent stuff, may it be the cause of the drop in performance?

All of that is for e10s. Untangling and reducing that will be a long-term issue.

[kduncan5]

the dreaded "Display driver stopped responding and has recovered" message.

Off-topic:
That usually means a video card with the frequency too high or wrong/corrupted VBIOS.

Driver/software is at default. You would think if the VBIOS was corrupted I wouldn't be able to do anthing on this computer without video crashing. As I said, I went back to v27.9.4 and the issue vanished.

As people seem to be saying in subsequent posts, Pale Moon is abandoning older hardware with v28. Guess we'll have to stick with 27.9.4 on her computer until I can manufacture some money (presto change-o!) to upgrade computers.

Upgrade hardware to support the browser... Wow.

[back2themoon]

Upgrade hardware to support the browser the Web... Wow.

[Night Wing]

As people seem to be saying in subsequent posts, Pale Moon is abandoning older hardware with v28. Guess we'll have to stick with 27.9.4 on her computer until I can manufacture some money (presto change-o!) to upgrade computers.

Upgrade hardware to support the browser... Wow.

I'm not buying your comments above. I've got 4 computers (2 desktop towers, 2 laptops). They are all different computers, different models. They all came with 64 bit Windows 7 Home Premium. They range in age from 2010 to 2013. They do not have any problems with Pale Moon 28.0.1 in linux or windows versions since I dual boot both 64 bit linux Mint 19 and 64 bit Windows 7.

When I bought these computers, I made a point "NOT" to buy them with the "bare bones minimum" in hardware (video cards, memory, etc) like some people do because from the start, I knew I was going to be keeping all of my computers for a long time.

This message I'm typing with my comments, it is with my oldest desktop tower, now 8 years old since it was bought new via a phone order directly from Hewlett-Packard and shipped to my home back in 2010. It came with an Intel i7-860 dual core processor with a speed of 2.80 GHz, 16 GB of memory and it still has the original Nvidia graphics card (1 GB GeForce GT 220) installed on the motherboard. It is using the last graphics driver which can be installed in this machine which is a 340 graphics driver. So it is definitely "old hardware".

If my graphics card would start giving me problems because of the ancient graphics driver, I won't buy a new computer. I'll buy a new graphics card for it, install it on the motherboard, download the newest driver for it and be back in business. Now I understand you can't change out a graphics chip on a laptop's motherboard, but many people don't think far into the future. These types of people, specifications wise, will buy an inexpensive computer because at the time of purchase, they don't want to shell out more money than they want to instead of have to.

As time goes by age wise, the bare bones computer starts having problems with software and it just isn't with browser software. I see this all the time at the computer shop where I volunteer at when people bring in their computers for repair, which are "newer than mine age wise", because they decided to go inexpensive at the time of purchase.

In my opinion, at the time of purchase; these types of people "want the taste of champagne, but only want to pay for it on a beer budget". So when you bought your computers, did you plan ahead time wise?

[doofy]

As people seem to be saying in subsequent posts, Pale Moon is abandoning older hardware with v28. Guess we'll have to stick with 27.9.4 on her computer until I can manufacture some money (presto change-o!) to upgrade computers.

Upgrade hardware to support the browser... Wow.

PM28 runs perfectly here. Maybe I never do the stuff that might initiate problems.

I did a benchmark check on my graphics/cpu. Here they are for anyone who wants a laugh:

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu. ... set&id=971
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp ... Hz&id=1049

The graphics is to die for - best: 14000, me: 67.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Driver/software is at default. You would think if the VBIOS was corrupted I wouldn't be able to do anthing on this computer without video crashing.

I had the wrong BIOS flashed to an eVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti, back in 2016 and there were strange symptoms: Phantom TDP throttling, Unigine Heaven 4.0 (IIRC) graphics are bobbing/bouncing/jerking, the dreaded "display driver has stopped responding and successfully recovered" message, when scenes change in Heaven, or otherwise switching applications and a crash with a red screen when using the command prompt in Windows! All the symptoms were gone, after I went to TechPowerUp and flashed the eVGA BIOS that had the desired description! TechPowerUp saved my bacon in 2016!

(I think it was my buddy who flashed the wrong BIOS)