PaleMoon 28.0.0 is much, much slower @ desmos than 27.* ? Topic is solved

[mortalwombat]

not just any calculation will do. it helps if it's slow and gradual, so things can be seen up-close. this is the test page I'm using to check animation smoothness. refresh rate on 27.* was pretty high, like close to 60FPS, and on all 28.*'s so far, refresh rate is really low, like 20FPS, and jumpy, not smooth -- sometimes freezing for a full second or more, just to get one frame, let alone 20 or 60.
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kkaomckncp

[Pallid Planetoid]

OK, try out the following page. on my computer, there is a night&day difference between PM 27.9.4 (updated from previous versions) and PM28.0.0 (updated from 27.9.4).

the older version of the browser renders the page smoothly and trouble-free at high FPS, as did all previous versions, and the newest version of the browser is choppy and laggy with low FPS, which is unprecedented on this machine.

--> https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kkaomckncp

Okay -- I have not tested Pale Moon v28.x using this URL until now.

I've loaded the URL in Pale Moon but without a comparison I'm not able to determine how well Pale Moon delivers on this test (as far as I can tell this is perhaps the same results I'd get in any other browser).

So with this URL still running this web page I've loaded the same "test" page in both Chrome and Firefox -- now we've got a base to compare the results of Pale Moon.

This is when I do see a pronounced difference: On Pale Moon the page renders noticeably choppy as compared to either Firefox or Chrome.

Because it's been reported that pre-v28 did not have issues with this website test it would appear that perhaps using this posted URL is a reliable method to see where v28 stands.

** I would be very interested for Moonchild and/or New Tobin Paradigm to do this same comparison test and report back their results.

I think this is a good test to see where Pale Moon is with the current v28.0.1 build (as compared to pre-28 if nothing else...).

[mortalwombat]

even when reducing the desmos setting (on that specific page) from 80 data points down to 10 or 5 or 3, which really lightens the JavaScript load down to almost no load, it's obvious there is some major bloat / bottleneck behind the scenes that is preventing the browser from achieving high screen drawing/rendering speed, and it still micro-freezes for split seconds between frames, maybe less with less load, but not proportionally to load, and still micro-freezes all the time. the micro-freezing apparently is not JavaScript computation load related, but something else unknown.
I pulled out a really old device, a Motorola Droid 4 XT894 cellphone from c.2012, and the included Chrome browser version 18.0.1025469 from c.2012 as well, and went to that same test page, and while it's a little slower than PM28/Win7x64 (seriously only a little!), the frame-to-frame lag is really consistent, which is the expected behavior. yes, it is slow to render in general, but it needs about the same computing speed from one frame to the next. that's what you want. PM27/Win7x64 was about the same way -- consistent frame computation speed. this is something that PM28/Win7x64 does NOT do. it has a really inconsistent, unpredictable, apparently random lag time, and excessive lag time, from one frame to the next.
not the local machine at fault. not the JavaScript/website at fault. not other browsers at fault. not PM27 at fault. something with PM28 upgrade specifically. wish I knew what.

[therube]

@mortal, did you?

I think this is a good test to see where Pale Moon is with the current v28.0.1 build.

[mortalwombat]

This is when I do see a pronounced difference: On Pale Moon the page renders noticeably choppy as compared to either Firefox or Chrome.

** I would be very interested for Moonchild and/or New Tobin Paradigm to do this same comparison test and report back their results.

I think this is a good test to see where Pale Moon is with the current v28.0.1 build.

^^ yeah, me too! thanks for checking in on this.
again for anyone interested, the test URL is https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kkaomckncp

[Pallid Planetoid]

I'm not going to start a new topic because I can't provide any information that may be of help other than to say for whatever reason Pale Moon locked-up with only two tabs open: 1) my start.me start-page 2) a news page with video playing (that I very often use and have never had any persistent issues with in the past).

Checking out WhatIsHang I would see this one line flash on/off that you can see in the screen-shot (to be more specific the line "Pale Moon start page..." would display and then not display over-and-over and continuing this cycle repeatedly):

flashing line in WhatIsHang.png

Because Pale Moon was "locked-up" (unresponsive) I had to stop the process.

This is what I got from Windows Task Manager (when I had no other choice than to end the PM process):

End task in TM.png

It appears to me that Pale Moon was in a never-ending cycle of momentarily getting locked-up about ever second that caused the browser to be basically unresponsive. This is not something that I've seen before -- or if I have not at all very often. When Pale Moon reloaded with the same two web pages after ending the process the issue did not return (so the issue is apparently not something that is particularly persistent so not easily confirmed as to what the cause may be. I didn't observe any increased CPU usage beyond that of what has been typical with Pale Moon pre-v28.).

[tenseys]

This is when I do see a pronounced difference: On Pale Moon the page renders noticeably choppy as compared to either Firefox or Chrome.

** I would be very interested for Moonchild and/or New Tobin Paradigm to do this same comparison test and report back their results.

I think this is a good test to see where Pale Moon is with the current v28.0.1 build.

^^ yeah, me too! thanks for checking in on this.
again for anyone interested, the test URL is https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kkaomckncp

I tried this now and PM 28.0.1 is a little more choppy than FF61... but both FF and PM have a little stutter and pause ..
On the other hand both Edge and IE 11 are perfectly smooth.

[Thehandyman1957]

not just any calculation will do. it helps if it's slow and gradual, so things can be seen up-close. this is the test page I'm using to check animation smoothness. refresh rate on 27.* was pretty high, like close to 60FPS, and on all 28.*'s so far, refresh rate is really low, like 20FPS, and jumpy, not smooth -- sometimes freezing for a full second or more, just to get one frame, let alone 20 or 60.
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kkaomckncp

Ah, yea. I see it now. Very sporadic.

[therube]

Checking out WhatIsHang

Shouldn't F9 have given you information in the bottom pane?

[Pallid Planetoid]

Checking out WhatIsHang

Shouldn't F9 have given you information in the bottom pane?

Is that right? -- I've never used WhatIsHang before -- but since Pale Moon was totally locked I thought I'd try it and not being familiar the app this is all I can report. So "F9" provides additional info in the bottom pane? I'll keep that in mind.... (there is no WhatIsHang "Help" in this regard ).

[Pallid Planetoid]

^ I got the same "hang" problems with Pale Moon again -- but pressing "F9" didn't provide any additional information in the lower pane. I just got the same behavior as before in Pale Moon and the WhatIsHang app.... Until I can garner additional information I guess this behavior will remain a mystery.

[cartel]

I also went back to 27.9.4 after testing this.
27.9.4 is faster and way less cpu usage drawing this: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/s4cillt98t

Plus all the telemetry pings with data and more telemetry strings added and enabled default along with datareporting stuff I just cant trust 28.*.* is looking out for our privacy any longer.

I find this very unfortunate and it saddens me.




I tested 27.9.4 and 28.0.1 in safemode with the above link.
28.0.1 took over 2 minutes to even start drawing the picture, the whole time my cpu was going nuts, once it did finish, the cpu stayed at 100% for 1 core indefinatly.

Safemode 28.0.1

2017036.jpg

high cpu usage after draw (safemode)

2017037.jpg

I just tried it with 27.9.4 in safemode and it did take longer than "not safe mode" but finished in under 30 seconds.




safemode 27.9.4 with high cpu after draw

2017038.jpg

not safemode 27.9.4 with 50% less cpu after draw and less cpu overall

2017039.jpg

[New Tobin Paradigm]

What an utter load of bullshit.. Telemetry is disabled any recording that MAY happen goes no where and it is being dismantled piece by piece as I type this..

I see almost no difference between Tycho and UXP for this series of tests.. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Regardless, going back to Tycho won't solve any problems for anyone and as long as you ARE on Tycho you are not factored into our development decisions nor are entitled to support.

Actions sometimes have consequences and those are yours, dude.

Off-topic:
I have tried to not go full on .. well Tobin since I been back but I can't let complete tripe go without comment. In a way, this time you all have a contributing factor in my responses. I'd ask you to please not jump to conclusions.. We were doing so well .. let's get back to that so I can be happy and you all can get everything you want. Thanks.

[Moonchild]

There is no slowness to be seen here either. Everything is on par with other versions and other browsers.

Cartel: If you for some reason think that Pale Moon is no longer for you, then that is entirely your decision to make but please don't start inventing reasons to justify yourself. You can decide to use it or not use it - you don't need a justification for that choice.

Then something more of a headscratcher:
Why are we even looking at this as some sort of reference to begin with?
This site is a mathematics graphing site. The fact that you can use mathematical formulae to draw a cartoon character on a graph doesn't mean it's in any way a real-world or intended use of the site or the browser's features. It's an interesting experiment at best.

[Fedor2]

Palemoon 28 has much telemetry code, as palemoon 27 - tycho has too, but it is not sending anywhere, only excess load.
I removed 90% telemetry code from the tycho, and had no noticeable increase of the performance.

[fillerup]

The fact that you can use mathematical formulae to draw a cartoon character on a graph doesn't mean it's in any way a real-world or intended use of the site or the browser's features.

i read this line 5 times or more, it's so funny..

[tenseys]

I also went back to 27.9.4 after testing this.
27.9.4 is faster and way less cpu usage drawing this: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/s4cillt98t

Plus all the telemetry pings with data and more telemetry strings added and enabled default along with datareporting stuff I just cant trust 28.*.* is looking out for our privacy any longer.

I find this very unfortunate and it saddens me.




I tested 27.9.4 and 28.0.1 in safemode with the above link.
28.0.1 took over 2 minutes to even start drawing the picture, the whole time my cpu was going nuts, once it did finish, the cpu stayed at 100% for 1 core indefinatly.

I just tried it with 27.9.4 in safemode and it did take longer than "not safe mode" but finished in under 30 seconds.

2017036.jpg
2017037.jpg

My 28.0.1 does it in 14 seconds w/normal profile. With new profile it takes 14 seconds.

[cartel]

I also went back to 27.9.4 after testing this.
27.9.4 is faster and way less cpu usage drawing this: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/s4cillt98t

Plus all the telemetry pings with data and more telemetry strings added and enabled default along with datareporting stuff I just cant trust 28.*.* is looking out for our privacy any longer.

I find this very unfortunate and it saddens me.




I tested 27.9.4 and 28.0.1 in safemode with the above link.
28.0.1 took over 2 minutes to even start drawing the picture, the whole time my cpu was going nuts, once it did finish, the cpu stayed at 100% for 1 core indefinatly.

I just tried it with 27.9.4 in safemode and it did take longer than "not safe mode" but finished in under 30 seconds.

2017036.jpg
2017037.jpg

My 28.0.1 does it in 14 seconds w/normal profile. With new profile it takes 14 seconds.

Yes here too but safemode took minutes in 28.0.1

[Moonchild]

Yes here too but safemode took minutes in 28.0.1

Maybe you forget that Safe Mode also disables all your graphics acceleration? That can severely impact performance of anything, let alone something that repaints a large portion of the screen constantly (like the graph area). All of that will be processed by the CPU in software mode.

[tenseys]

Yes here too but safemode took minutes in 28.0.1

FF61 in safe mode takes long too. I actually gave up on waiting for it.

Normal or clean profile PM 28 seems pretty good at 14 seconds.