Captchas hell

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Octopuss
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Captchas hell

Unread post by Octopuss » 2018-05-03, 16:41

One of the downsides to using PM has always been the fucking captchas. I guess something about the browser works differently than expected, and you always had to complete the retarded pictures.
That went away for a short while at some point in past - some time during last year I think - but have since reappeared again.
It's getting worse and worse though: I had to find fucking road signs at least TWELVE times to log into Twitch just a few minutes ago. I regularly get "try again" error despite selecting ALL of the required pictures. Sometimes it just repeats itself like it has happened right now.

Moonchild, is there anything that could be done?
Last edited by Octopuss on 2018-05-03, 16:42, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Isengrim » 2018-05-03, 18:15

I'm not Moonchild, but one of the things Google checks when you complete a Captcha is how it is completed. Try introducing some randomness, e.g. moving your mouse in random patterns a few times before clicking on a tile.

Part of the reason Captcha challenges PM users more often is because the software is biased towards the more mainstream browsers and against lesser-known ones. It has little to do with how the browser itself actually works.
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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Octopuss » 2018-05-03, 18:29

Well, other browsers (Firefox and IE11) I tried don't even require you to play any puzzle whatsoever. You click "I'm not a robot" and you get green checkmark right away :(

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Moonchild » 2018-05-03, 18:36

All that tells you is that the captcha is biased against "non mainstream browsers" (aka buddies). It has nothing to do with Pale Moon presenting "bot-like behavior" or actually being a problem in the browser. It has everything to do with giving preference to browsers (probably by user agent but potentially by other criteria like being able to steal some computing time for a "zero click" response) that are known and preferred by the operator of the captcha.
Last edited by Moonchild on 2018-05-03, 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Octopuss
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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Octopuss » 2018-05-03, 18:41

Eh, bastards :(

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Phantom » 2018-05-03, 22:33

Google does have an invisible captcha that would seem like it may work better. Why sites don't use it I don't know.


There is a major UA problem with Pale Moon sense a lot of websites want you to use either BS Firefox or Chrome. I solve this problem with the extension called UAControl. I make it look like I'm using Firefox.

You can try this UA:

Code: Select all

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:59.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/59.0
Or for a 32 bit OS.

Code: Select all

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:59.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/59.0


Just remember to stay abreast of Firefox releases. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/

Only use the main branch. Like right now it's 59.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Phantom » 2018-05-03, 22:36

I just realized UAControl may only be a web extension right now instead of XUL. I can give it to you if you want.
Last edited by Phantom on 2018-05-03, 22:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by BlueOwl » 2018-05-03, 23:39

See here: https://meta.stackexchange.com/question ... 277_267214 . Apparently, anyone with some privacy settings gets the pictures (it could also be caused by browser bias, I don't know). I can't even remember a single event where clicking the checkbox got me through; which is understandable given that I reject third-party cookies, disable geolocation and periodically clear cookies I don't want.

And a small secret: no one is sure about what to do with the poles that hold up the street signs.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by fillerup » 2018-05-04, 02:45

this is less an issue with the browser and more of a network one. for example at home i get these annoying captchas all the time on both PM and Safari, but at work neither browsers have any issue

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by fillerup » 2018-05-04, 02:48

fillerup wrote:this is less an issue with the browser and more of a network one. for example at home i get these annoying captchas all the time on both PM and Safari, but at work neither browsers have any issue
edit: actually now that i think about it, i may have to rescind my statement as Safari mobile does not exhibit the same behavior during my usage

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adesh
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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by adesh » 2018-05-04, 09:28

In past, it happened to me once that I did not have to "solve" any images and just a click on check-mark got me through. But that was probably because I had already solved the challenge for a site one month ago and Google somehow got my browser fingerprint (considering third-party cookies are blocked).

I don't use a website that relies on Google reCAPTCHA, and I am vocal about it and let the site owner know. This whole CAPTCHA (Google's) is about training their system and sampling user behaviour, that's why they make you click 20 times to prove that you are human. Recently, I stopped using Dropbox. That is the SILVER BULLET.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Sob__ » 2018-05-04, 15:55

There's one thing I discovered recently by accident...

Originally when clicking on the "I'm not robot" checkbox, I just clicked and waited. I didn't move a mouse by single pixel, because why would I. And then I had to go through at least three (but usually even more) store front, traffic signs and whatever else finding games. Those with slooooowly reappearing images were my favourites.

Now I click on the checkbox, and immediately start moving the mouse like crazy, like I had some kind of seisure. And it works, I usually get green checkmark right away, or just one or two easy puzzles. It's stupid and I still hate the authors very much, but it's definitely an improvement.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by fillerup » 2018-05-05, 02:23

Sob__ wrote:Those with slooooowly reappearing images were my favourites.
ahaha yes, such an infuriating experience getting those

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by DrKnow » 2018-05-07, 23:56

Moonchild wrote:All that tells you is that the captcha is biased against "non mainstream browsers" (aka buddies). It has nothing to do with Pale Moon presenting "bot-like behavior" or actually being a problem in the browser. It has everything to do with giving preference to browsers (probably by user agent but potentially by other criteria like being able to steal some computing time for a "zero click" response) that are known and preferred by the operator of the captcha.
Browsing these forums I've detected a certain paranoia from some of the devs regarding persecution by Google. I joined to ask this question.

Do you really think Google even thinks about a browser with such a small market share that they change the way reCAPTCHA works?

If you do, report the fact to the Anti-competitive bodies in Europe and the US. It's actually easy to report and would take minimal effort on your part.
They will investigate. Google has been punished before and cases are still on-going.

However, I suspect you really don't believe this, but will attack this suggestion regardless.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Moonchild » 2018-05-08, 01:10

DrKnow wrote:Browsing these forums I've detected a certain paranoia from some of the devs regarding persecution by Google. I joined to ask this question.

Do you really think Google even thinks about a browser with such a small market share that they change the way reCAPTCHA works?
I think you misread a few things. This has nothing to do with persecution or specific targeting of small projects per se, but rather throwing alternative browsers on the same heap as bots because they are "unknown" to their "detection" systems in place and therefore get marked as "needs to be challenged". From there on it's a free game for Google.
Would they change recpatcha algos for Pale Moon? I wouldn't rule it out -- they will adjust for specific bots, too, that have much less patronage than our browser...

Knowing Google, it's all going to be about some internal "trust score". Very simple to verify too: if you use the same PC with the same connection to the same page using Chrome, you won't get challenged, or hardly ever. Do the same with Firefox, you get challenged regularly but not annoyingly so. Do the same with Pale Moon, and they throw long, convoluted challenges at you. It is a direct cause. The captchas are also determined server-side, not in the browser, so this is, without any doubt, a conscious decision on Google's side.

You can call it paranoia or persecution; I call it "deliberate inconvenience for users". These captchas are basically the nagware of web widgets.
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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by fillerup » 2018-05-09, 02:14


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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Phantom » 2018-05-09, 09:39

I'll try this Bypass Google Sorry (reCAPTCHA) and see if it indeed works. If so, so much for a captcha. LOL

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by Phantom » 2018-05-09, 09:53

And it doesn't work.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by fillerup » 2018-05-10, 04:59

Phantom wrote:And it doesn't work.
yep it seems to have broken recently. i'll do some more digging for an alternative later
Last edited by fillerup on 2018-05-10, 05:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Captchas hell

Unread post by greyowl » 2018-05-10, 20:35

Phantom wrote:I just realized UAControl may only be a web extension right now instead of XUL. I can give it to you if you want.
I am wanting to try UAControl with Palemoon on a 32 bit Linux system. Please send me the XUL.
Thanks

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