A very minor point......

[Martin333]

A small note:

Pale Moon with Menu Bar can be closed by pressing x on keyboard when the Menu Bar is clicked with a mouse. [Fig. 1]

On the other hand, Pale Moon without Menu Bar can not be closed by pressing x (or e - the first letter of Exit) on keyboard when the topmost Menu is clicked with a mouse. [Fig. 2]

When I do not use the Menu Bar, I wish to click the topmost Menu and then just press x or e on the keyboard to close Pale Moon, instead of again using the mouse to click the Exit button.

I know it is a very minor point, nevertheless, one which I seek too often, especially when compared with using other software !

Can the latter option be made available, please? Thanks.

[JustOff]

If you want to use shortcuts to exit, you can just press Alt+F and then x; this will be even faster then using mouse to open Application Menu and then x, if it was there

[Martin333]

Thanks JustOff, for the fast reply.

The way I have been using various applications involves using the mouse a lot, and I use the mouse to close them just by clicking on the topmost left corner and choosing a shortcut key.

Even in Windows Explorer, I use to click the topmost left corner (even though it does not show any menu) and press c to close the window. (Or simply double-click there.) Similar is the case in almost all other applications - except Pale Moon.

Currently I use Alt+F and x only for closing Pale Moon, but using the other hand to press the Alt key - taking the hand away from the mouse - is what I want to avoid.

Usually, I can simply press the X button on the top Right corner to close the window, or even Alt+F4 keys, but in this particular case, I am using MinTrayR extension too, so PM minimizes to the tray instead of closing. The Menu Bar in PM is hidden by me to save some space at the top.

You have said "....if it was there..." so I presume the option is not generally available. I wish to know whether it can be made available for Pale Moon too just as in many other applications.

Thanks.

[Martin333]

I am still looking for a solution..... Probably too much of a hassle to add this functionality?

Thanks.

[Moonchild]

The application menu is primarily designed for mouse use. It's not that it's "too much hassle" but rather that it doesn't make sense from a design perspective to use the AppMenu with the mouse but not select the entry in it with the mouse. If you notice, none of the entries there have access keys.

[Martin333]

Well, it does make sense for me as explained by me earlier. However, I don't expect this to be implemented just for me.

May be, if many members feel the need, it might be implemented, but I don't expect it happening any time soon.

Thanks anyway, for the reply.

[BenFenner]

For lack of a better description, the "classic menu bar" is completely pointer and keyboard friendly.

The "newer menu drop-down", can it be opened with the keyboard at all? Or is it required to use the pointer to open it? I ask, because I have never used it...
If it can be opened with the keyboard, then you'd also expect the rest of it to respond to keyboard use, including the provision for shortcuts.

Martin, what happens if you open the new menu, then hold the Alt key? Does it add underlines to the letters, and then accept keyboard input that way?
Similarly, does activating the menu and then using the arrow keys on the keyboard produce any useful behavior? Can you traverse the menus and then activate one using the keyboard that way? (I realize this is not a solution to your problem, just trying to diagnose things here.)


Classic UI behavior has always dictated a pointer-only solution and a keyboard-only solution to any and all behaviors. Moving away from that only reduces functionality.

[Moonchild]

BenFenner: the AppMenu (Pale Moon button) can not be opened with the keyboard. It's mouse-focused. Only the classic menu can be opened with the keyboard.
Pressing Alt with the AppMenu open closes the AppMenu -- it's not designed for keyboard shortcuts and will return focus to the main application UI for Alt shortcuts.
As said, it's designed for pointer use.

[Martin333]

.....a pointer-only solution and a keyboard-only solution.....

.....it's not designed for keyboard shortcuts.....

.....it's designed for pointer use.....

Thanks for the kind explanations.

[_yuyu_]

Martin333

I installed Mac Shortcuts add-on and use Ctrl+Q shortcut to quit)) regardless of Menu Bar existance.

[Martin333]

@ _yuyu_

Probably I can just use my favorite shortcut of ctrl+w to close all open tabs and in turn PM too.

It is just that I have been used to mouse-clicking the leftmost top corner of applications for several reasons (generally to use the File Menu present in almost all applications) with my right hand and in turn use a shortcut key like x with my left hand.

It works in almost all applications, and it definitely works in Pale Moon too if the Menu Bar is visible, but I wished it to work even when the Menu Bar is hidden in PM.

As I said earlier, it works even in Windows Explorer - as per the following screenshot - wherein one can click the top left corner with mouse using right hand and then press the c key to close the window even though no letter is underlined as BenFenner has noted earlier.

So, 'pointer-only solution', 'keyboard-only solution', 'not designed for keyboard shortcuts', 'designed for pointer use'..... mentioned above strictly does not apply to Windows Explorer; but with my limited knowledge I do not say it needs to work in Pale Moon too in the same way.

It is up to the Developers of Pale Moon to decide whether it can or cannot work in PM without affecting its performance.

Thanks for chiming in with your solution.

[Moonchild]

Please understand that the Pale Moon application menu is NOT the same as the system menu for standard windows, which are NOT a pointer-only design (alt+space opens it for keyboard access, even in Pale Moon).

For various reasons (mostly access key contention and it just not being logical design) I won't consider adding access keys to the AppMenu.

[Martin333]

@ Moonchild

Thank You for the kind explanations.