The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon Topic is solved

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tonyb

The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by tonyb » 2017-12-17, 18:01

I would like to notify a technical problem with pale moon.
Using pale moon as main browser, I noticed that the mathematical symbols obtained by using bbc or html coding does not translate in pale moon. It shows the letter p and not the greek letter pi. It does so using IE11 in my case.
This is a minor technical issue for most, but for scientist and technical users of pale moon, this represents a rather annoying issue.
it seems pale moon substitutes the font=symbol code with font=times new roman or such.

It would be a nice improvement for moonchild's otherwise excellent browser alternative to be able to accomodate fonts used by technicians and by scientists.

Thank you for your attention

TonyB

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Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by Moonchild » 2017-12-17, 18:33

Make sure you use a unicode font and use the UTF-8 notation/code for your greek letters.
Small Pi=π
Caps Pi=Π

Alternatively if you're using HTML you can use entities, in which case it would be system/font agnostic:

Code: Select all

Π  π
(see e.g. https://www.freeformatter.com/html-entities.html for a reference list of entities)
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tonyb

Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by tonyb » 2017-12-17, 19:23

Thanks, but my issue is not creating a post.
As said, the font=symbol letters show fine with IE11, but fail to show in pale moon. There are some, but not all letters 'Pi" for example which show as p, which show as the greek Pi in IE 11.

say on the frontpage of: https://cosmosdawn.net/index.php?lang=en

you can see the pi as p in some places but as the appropriate greek pi in others.

In IE 11 all pi are as desired. But in pale moon they show as seen below.

Thanks for your considerations.

I noticed, that the greek pi shows in the part of the quote, which is colour coded in red. This might be part of the problem. Though there are other parts in posts, which are not colour coded which show the greek letters. Most however do not.
TonyB

[quote]
It is found, that the Dark Matter (DM) component of the universe evolves as a function of a density parameter for the coupling between the inflaton of AdS and the instanton of dS space times. It then is the coupling strength between the inflationary AdS brane epoch and the QBB dS boundary condition, which determines the time evolution of the Dark Energy (DE). Parametrization of the expansion parameter H(n) then allows the cosmological constant term in the Friedmann equation to be merged with the scalar curvature term to effectively set an intrinsic density parameter at time instantenuity equal to L(n) for Lps=LQBB=GoMo/lps2 and where the wavelength of the de Broglie matter wave of the inflaton lps decouples as the Quantum Field Energy of the Planck Boson String in AdS and manifests as the measured mass density of the universe in the flatness of 4D Minkowski spacetime.


dH/dt + 4pGr = - 4pGP/c2

... (for V4/10D=[4p/3]RH3 and V5/11D=2p2RH3 in factor 3p/2)
For Hypersphere Volumar of 3-sphere: d2{V4}/dR2 = d2{½p2R4}/dR2 = d{2p2R3}/dR = 6p2R2 Surface Area of Horn Torus (2pR)(2pR)= 4p2R2

Linearisation of lps = 2prps = npsRH = c/fps = HoRH/fps
4pMo/R3 = Mo/{2p2(lps/2p)3} = Mo/{4p2{lps/2p}3 for Eps ZPE/VPE density 4pEps/rps3
{4pMo/R3}.{3p/2} = 3Mo/{4p(lps/2p)3} = 6p2Mo/lps3 = 4p.{3p/2}Mo/lps3 = 4p.dFeigenbaum chaos limit {Mo/lps3}

areset = Rk(n)AdS/Rk(n)dS + ½ = n-SPnk-1+Pnk +½ Scalefactor modulation at Nk = {[n-SPnk-1]/Pnk } = ½ reset coordinate
{dH/dt} = areset .d{Ho/T(n)}/dt = - Ho2(2n+1)(n+3/2)/T(n)2 for k=0

dH/dt + 4pGr = - 4pGP/c2

-Ho2(2n+1)(n+3/2)/T(n)2 + GoMo/{RH3(n/[n+1])3}{4p} = L(n)/{RH(n/[n+1])} + L/3 -2Ho2{[n+1]2-¼}/T[n]2 + GoMo/RH3(n/[n+1])3{4p} = L(n)/RH(n/[n+1]) + L/3 -2Ho2{[n+1]2-¼}/T(n)2 + 4p.GoMo/RH3(n/[n+1])3 = L(n)/RH(n/[n+1]) + L/3
For a scalefactor a=n/[n+1] = {1-1/[n+1]} = 1/{1+1/n}

Λ(n)/RH(n/[n+1]) = - 4πGP/c2 = GoMo/RH3(n/[n+1 ])3 -2Ho2/(n[n+1]2)

and Λ = 0

for -P(n) = Λ(n)c2[n+1]/4πGonRH =Λ(n)Hoc[n+1]/4πGon = Moc2[n+1]3/4πn3RH3 - Ho2c2/2πGon[n+1]2

For n=1.13242:............ - (+6.7003x10-11 J/m3)* = (2.12682x10-11 J/m3)* + (-8.82709x10-11 J/m3)* Negative Dark Energy Pressure = Positive Matter Energy + Negative Inherent Milgröm Deceleration(cHo/Go)​


The Dark Energy and the 'Cosmological Constant' exhibiting the nature of an intrinsic negative pressure in the cosmology become defined in the overall critical deceleration and density parameters. The pressure term in the Friedmann equations being a quintessence of function n and changing sign from positive to negative to positive as indicated. For a present measured deceleration parameter qdS=-0.5585, the DE Lambda calculates as -6.700x10-11 (N/m2=J/m3)*, albeit as a positive pressure within the negative quintessence.[end of quote]

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Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by Moonchild » 2017-12-17, 19:55

My answer was not about creating a post. It's a general guideline to use if you want to create web pages.
I had a look at the page; the problem is clear.
You're using, e.g.:

Code: Select all

<span style="font-family: 'symbol';">
    pP
</span>
It is unsafe to rely on "font-family:symbol" combined with mapped latin letters because "symbol" as a font family is not well-defined, and will display differently on different systems and different browsers.
As said you should either use the browser-agnostic html entities, or make sure you use a Unicode font + UTF-8 instead of "P" and relying on the interpretation of "symbol" as a font family being accurate. You'll have to convert your current page content.
Alternatively you can use a downloadable font with @font-face to define "symbol" as a font-family in your pages, even so this is not recommended because the page will still display incorrectly if users don't allow downloadable fonts.

So the best solution is to drop the "span" elements and symbol font altogether, and use either HTML entities or UTF-8 encoding to actually designate the Greek letters instead of using them as display-only in a different font that redefines Latin letters as symbols.
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Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by tenseys » 2017-12-17, 20:00

I see the little pi symbol in IE11 (and Chrome) but not in PM or FF:

IE11:
pi1.PNG
PM/FF:
pi2.PNG
Last edited by tenseys on 2017-12-17, 20:09, edited 1 time in total.
I'm using Pale Moon version 28.1.0 (64-bit) on Windows 10 Home 64-bit.

tonyb

Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by tonyb » 2017-12-17, 20:08

Thanks for the reply.
Most of the content on my sites was created using bbc code and not html and the issue persists. The page you looked at was a copy paste from a bbc website to one still using html.
I am really not in a position to rewrite 10 years of work page by page to replace this bbc code from the structure [font=symbol].....[/font] to something else, as you are suggesting.
So I am asking if there is a way to globally change say the bbc structure on forums using bbc in preference to html.
IE11 has no problem reading the font=symbol structure, so it should be possible for PM to do the same.

I am no computer code programmer, so I dont know how to do this, but perhaps a css template could do it.

tonyB

tonyb

Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by tonyb » 2017-12-17, 20:14

tenseys wrote:I see the little pi symbol in IE11 (and Chrome) but not in PM or FF:

IE11:

pi1.PNG
PM/FF:

pi2.PNG
Thanks tenseys. So it seems this could be an issue for PM's creators to have a closer look at.
If chrome translates like IE and FF like PM, then the issue could be related to a common programming platform.

tonyb

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Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by Moonchild » 2017-12-17, 20:23

*sigh* no, it's not something for us to look at. Please don't take the fact that it happens to display well in other browsers as proof that "the page is correct and the browser is wrong".

For the last time: relying on the interpretation of latin letters by using a specific latin-to-symbol font mapping font family is risky because, once more, symbol is not well-defined as a font family.

The issue you're running into is that these pages were designed at a time when current extended character sets were not available in a single, uniform way, and latin-to-arbitrary display characters was common practice.
I also already gave you a workaround if you can't or don't want to change the content of the pages, and that is to use a @font-face rule to indicate a known symbol font, and call upon that in your spanned elements (which seem to have been translated from the old html FONT tag). What you really should do is make a (scripted) conversion of the pages to something that is UTF-8, making it completely unambiguous what should be displayed.
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tonyb

Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by tonyb » 2017-12-17, 20:26

Ok then, thanks for your help.

TonyB

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Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by Moonchild » 2017-12-17, 21:18

Actually, my suggested workaround with @font-face might not work, after all. Apologies if that caused confusion.

Characters in HTML and XML documents are Unicode characters (even if the document has been encoded using a legacy encoding for transfer)—not font glyph indexes.

Code: Select all

<font face="Symbol">a</font>
or the equivalent in css means the character LATIN SMALL LETTER A (U+0061) preferably displayed using the Symbol font.
Since the Symbol font does not actually have a glyph for that character, another font is used (and Pale Moon therefore falls back to whatever is the default content font specified) that does have a glyph for the latin letter.
If you mean to get α, you should use GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA (U+03B1).
If you are using a legacy encoding that cannot represent that character, you can use a numeric character reference: &#945;. These numeric references are also listed in the HTML entity list I linked to.

I'm sorry if this is not the answer you were looking for, but this is the HTML standard, and we adhere to that. Treating the characters as font glyph indexes is simply incorrect.
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tonyb

Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by tonyb » 2017-12-18, 06:23

Thanks again, but my inquiry was not about how to update the creation of mathematical text, using the new html-bbc standards.
I have already begun to NOT use the FONT=symbol code and use other means to represent such text to show in PM - and it does.

You have discerned the problem of the local code to its full extent and I thought, when first encountering this issue, that this issue would somehow relate to a default font setting used by PM, just as you stated in your last reply.

But can't you see that it is not practical for any scientist to rewrite decades of mathematically infused text because the older standard of encoding mathematical text has been replaced by a new standard?
You are asking such a scientist to literally rewrite thousands of pages, each page often using the greek/old symbol font alphabet in hundreds of equations and mathematical expressions PER Page?

The problem so is not a particular glyph of the old font=symbol code, but the entire class of glyphs contained by that font. Also in scientific papers, the fonts switch from one to another, often in a single sentence of text.

So my inquiry was about SOME global solution; either at the front end server or a admin forum end.
In particular then a programming code, which could be inserted in the server-forum original setup, say some css code or similar.

Alternatively, I simply asked if such a global solution could be made native to PM, as other browsers still are able to translate the old standard now replaced by a new one.

But again, I appreciate your extended effort and explanation you have expended on my inquiry.

tonyb

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Re: The font=symbol does not translate in ple moon

Post by Moonchild » 2017-12-18, 10:24

tonyb wrote:You are asking such a scientist to literally rewrite thousands of pages, each page often using the greek/old symbol font alphabet in hundreds of equations and mathematical expressions PER Page?
I'm saying such a scientist could write a script to do such a thing completely automatically. An advanced "search&replace" if you will. I'm assuming here that the bbc and html pages have specific structure around their formulae that would make recognizing and converting [font definition+latin characters] easy enough to do automatically on all documents affected.
If someone would do that it would be a merit to the entire scientific community by converting these non-standard documents into something that is both content-correct and displayed properly now and in the future in any reader.

The current documents are not content-correct, because the actual characters are latin, and only visually correct because of a very dependent (and non-standard) display method that is highly-dependent on available fonts to convert the content characters into significantly-different display content. This means the actual documents themselves need to have their content updated. Yes, if this is decades of documentation, then it has been done in a way for decades that is incorrect (wouldn't be the first time).
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