Why are fonts bigger in Firefox?

[JoeyG]

My wife has the latest PaleMoon and Fx ESR.

I've gone through the about:config settings on both, and they seem to be identical in all the relevant entries.

However, this is a screen shot of what happens in EBay.
http://edu-net.net/images/compare.jpg

As you can see, the fonts are much smaller in Pale Moon than in Fx. As far as she's noticed, the problem only occurs in EBay.

Otherwise, I've finally broken her of the Firefox habit.

I'll be grateful for any suggestions.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Looks like text-only zooming to me. Fonts look correct in Pale Moon where they do not in Firefox.

Also, I am unsure why you are asking, in a Pale Moon support board, for Firefox support.

[JoeyG]

... Also, I am unsure why you are asking, in a Pale Moon support board, for Firefox support.

Thank you for your reply.

As I mentioned in the very last line of my message, "Otherwise, I've finally broken her of the Firefox habit."

The point is that my wife and I have been using Fx for over two decades. With the changes announced for Fx 57, I decided to jump ship, and I've had PM set as my default browser for a couple of months already. I'm VERY happy so far.

My wife, however, doesn't like it when things on her monitor "look" different from what she's used to. She spends a lot of time on EBay, so the issue I've mentioned is extremely annoying to her and has engendered a degree of recalcitrance vis-à-vis the move to PM.

I hope this provides the info you were looking for.

Again, thanks for your reply.

[gracious1]

As you can see, the fonts are much smaller in Pale Moon than in Fx. As far as she's noticed, the problem only occurs in EBay.
Otherwise, I've finally broken her of the Firefox habit.
I'll be grateful for any suggestions.

Some things to try:

• In, the Menu Bar, pull down Tools > Options > Content. Try changing the default font and/or character size.
• Also in the Content tab, click on "Advanced". Set the Minimum Font Size to something higher, like 12 or 16, or whatever may suit.

[JoeyG]

Some things to try:

• In, the Menu Bar, pull down Tools > Options > Content. Try changing the default font and/or character size.
• Also in the Content tab, click on "Advanced". Set the Minimum Font Size to something higher, like 12 or 16, or whatever may suit.

Thank you for your reply.

I've done this; the settings are the same in both browsers.

And for some reason, setting a minimum font size in PaleMoon doesn't affect EBay. Must be related to their web programming.

As you can see in the image below, just as a test, I've set the min. font size to 28, but as you can also see, there are still tiny fonts on the page.
http://edu-net.net/images/fonts.jpg

Anyway, thanks again for your reply.

[tpcsanh]

I don't know if this will work for you, but appears to work here. I tried it on eBay.

Enable "Allow pages to choose their own fonts ...".

I realize you may not want this enabled. Adjust Minimum font size. I chose 28 based on your example. The tiny fonts became bigger.

Now, disable "Allow pages to choose their own fonts ...". The fonts changed, but not the sizes.

[JoeyG]

I don't know if this will work for you, but appears to work here. I tried it on eBay.

Enable "Allow pages to choose their own fonts ...".

I realize you may not want this enabled. Adjust Minimum font size. I chose 28 based on your example. The tiny fonts became bigger.

Now, disable "Allow pages to choose their own fonts ...". The fonts changed, but not the sizes.

Thank you very much for your reply.

Let me mention before I continue that the two screenshots I've uploaded today were done on my computer, not my wife's. I'm using a 27 inch screen @2560x1440, with the Windows DPI set to 135%.

Anyway, I tried your suggestion. Here's the result:
http://edu-net.net/images/fonts02.jpg

As you can see, the fonts are still tiny.

And there really is something going on here. The following are my observations (your mileage may vary):
(1) The fonts on the EBay site are displayed bigger in Fx than in PM. Period.
(2) The font programming on the EBay "list" pages is different than for the pages of individual items, which makes "site magnification" inconvenient.
(3) The font programming on ebay.de is different from ebay.com. On the former, changing the minimum font size has no effect whatsoever; on the American site it does.

Hmmmmm.

Addendum ...

I wonder if this is relevant.
viewtopic.php?t=15338

In PM, when I go into about:config and type in GDI, there are three values. I'm not quite sure what they mean.

I'm also looking into the Font and Clear Type options is PaleMoon Commander.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the input so far.

[mr tribute]

In the first screenshot of this thread Firefox zoom may be set to more than 100 %. Use zoom in Pale Moon if you want Pale Moon bigger too.

Or maybe Windows DPI scaling doesn't work the same in Firefox and Pale Moon. That is also possible. DPI scaling shouldn't scale content, just UI. So in that case Pale Moon does it right and Firefox does it wrong. Can you get normal fonts in Firefox?

[Pallid Planetoid]

I do not really see any significant difference at all between the two browsers in my case....

Pale Moon:

Firefox:

Other than the OP, do others see much of any difference?

I am using this link for a comparison test: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-Geforce-GT730-2GB-GDDR5/222755398146?hash=item33dd41a202:g:uwcAAOSwHNxaMkJa

[mr tribute]

Thanks Pale Moon Rising for the pictures.

The conclusion must be that OP has Firefox fonts zoomed on Ebay. Zoom can work with our without pictures and there are zoom extensions available if the native feature doesn't give you enough control. It's possible to set zoom per domain or as a default zoom level.

Sometimes OS-wide DPI scaling will scale browser content. In this case it was on Ebay only so it's clearly a browser zoom setting. Browser font settings are general, not domain specific.

[JoeyG]

In the first screenshot of this thread Firefox zoom may be set to more than 100 %. Use zoom in Pale Moon if you want Pale Moon bigger too.

Thanks for your reply. As far as I can see, all the settings in Firefox and PaleMoon are the same.

Or maybe Windows DPI scaling doesn't work the same in Firefox and Pale Moon. That is also possible. DPI scaling shouldn't scale content, just UI. So in that case Pale Moon does it right and Firefox does it wrong. Can you get normal fonts in Firefox?

The DPI on my wife's computer is set to 100% (default). I'm not sure what you mean by "normal fonts" in your last sentence.

Thanks again.

[JoeyG]

I do not really see any significant difference at all between the two browsers in my case ... I am using this link for a comparison test: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-Geforce-GT730-2GB-GDDR5/222755398146?hash=item33dd41a202:g:uwcAAOSwHNxaMkJa

Thank you for your reply.

If it's not too much trouble, could you please try it again on eBay.de? It seems the programming used behind the German site is different than the American.

Thanks again.

[JoeyG]

... The conclusion must be that OP has Firefox fonts zoomed on Ebay ...

Thank you for your reply.

As I've mentioned, this is not the case.

All I can do is repeat my original observation: On the Ebay Germany website, the fonts are larger when using the latest Firefox ESR (x64) than they are when using the latest Pale Moon (x64).

Thanks again to everyone who's taken the time to reply so far.

Have a nice weekend.

[Pallid Planetoid]

I do not really see any significant difference at all between the two browsers in my case ... I am using this link for a comparison test: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-Geforce-GT730-2GB-GDDR5/222755398146?hash=item33dd41a202:g:uwcAAOSwHNxaMkJa

Thank you for your reply.

If it's not too much trouble, could you please try it again on eBay.de? It seems the programming used behind the German site is different than the American.

Thanks again.

Okay here you go with a comparison of identical Germain websites for Pale Moon and Firefox --- Correct me if I am wrong... but they certainly do appear to look identical to me...

Pale Moon:

Firefox:

Because in my case the same site appearing to render exactly the same for both browsers would suggest that there is something different on your side as far as some kind of setting or something between the two browsers.

Are you comparing on the same computer (in other words do you and your wife have different computers)?

If the same computers is used for the comparison, then it seems as if in your case because the pages are getting rendered differently that one site has something impacting it uniquely different compared to the other site since in my case I get different results which would suggest there is something minimally different between the two browsers regarding this specific website.

Do other sites than ebay render in this same different way? (If not one would assume some kind of setting is specifically impacting ebay in a different ways in regards to each of the two browsers).

You do not have a third browser you could try installing another browser to see which compares to Pale Moon and if Firefox is the "odd man out" then try and focus on what setting you have that is different with Firefox.... (that's something I'll do as I have numerous browsers for testing).

[Pallid Planetoid]

Comparing the same Germain site using a number of browsers.... (all appear identical --- so if you have a third browser to compare and it turns out Firefox is different than the other two then one could conclude that your Firefox browser has perhaps something set differently specific to the ebay website that would be perhaps be other than "default" so-to-speak ....

Pale Moon:

Firefox:

Basilisk:

Opera:

Chrome:

IE11:

[JoeyG]

Okay here you go with a comparison of identical sites for Pale Moon and Firefox --- Correct me if I am wrong... but they sure do appear to look identical to me...

Thank you very, very much for spending the time to follow up on this. I sincerely appreciate it.

In regard to your screenshots, yes, they certainly look identical.

In regard to the rest of your post: The issue is only on my wife's computer, and after my last message, I spent another hour looking at her settings. As I've said, the basic font-related settings are identical.

I've also gone into the about:config settings. In the respective "fonts" entries, Firefox has some that PaleMoon lacks, but I have no idea what they mean. As for the "numbers" in the entries that exist in both, they're also identical.

I wonder what would happen if I went into the Fx userprefs.js file and copied all the "fonts" entries and then pasted them into PM. (Of course I'd back up the profile before messing around.)

And in another direction, just to show how ignorant I am about "how computers work", could the issue somehow be hardware related? My wife's machine is based on an "elderly" (2010) ASUS Barebones that uses the Intel® G41 Express Graphics chipset. Is this even remotely possible?

If so, maybe I'll install a graphics card and see if it makes a difference.

Again, my thanks to Pale Moon Rising and everyone else who's taken the time to try to help me with this.

[Pallid Planetoid]

I wonder what would happen if I went into the Fx userprefs.js file and copied all the "fonts" entries and then pasted them into PM. (Of course I'd back up the profile before messing around.)

I would NOT recommend doing this as the two browsers are certainly different (the two browsers use different engines and will use different preferences in some cased due to this -- Pale Moon uses the Goanna engine as opposed to Firefox that uses the Gecko engine) -- LINK: Comparison of web browser engines (some of that may not be entirely up-to-date as I think that Opera uses the Blink engine now and not Presto).

And in another direction, just to show how ignorant I am about "how computers work", could the issue somehow be hardware related? My wife's machine is based on an "elderly" (2010) ASUS Barebones that uses the Intel® G41 Express Graphics chipset. Is this even remotely possible?

Others that may know more about this can correct me if I'm wrong --- but YES, I think this could very well make a difference as it would seem to me that graphics card driver compatibilities could certainly vary between browsers.....

Have you checked to make sure that your current graphics card is up-to-date as far as the most current driver?

[JoeyG]

I would NOT recommend doing this as the two browsers are certainly different

OK, Thanks.

Have you checked to make sure that your current graphics card is up-to-date as far as the most current driver?

Intel offers a new version for the G41 Express Chipset than the one that's installed on my wife's machine, but it does so with the caveat, "The driver or software for your Intel® component might have been changed or replaced by the computer manufacturer. We recommend you work with your computer manufacturer before installing our driver so you don’t lose features or customizations."

The driver on my wife's machine is the most recent (and the only) one offered by Asus for that particular barebones kit. I wouldn't want to fool around with it.

I reckon I could buy her a graphics card (there's a pci-e x16 slot on her mainboard), but somehow I feel this is overkill.

Anyway thanks again for taking the time to help me.

[JoeyG]

Two new theories (to be tested later) ...

1. In Fx ESR, my wife is using the Classic Themes Restorer extension. In Pale Moon, it's obviously not necessary. Perhaps there's a CTR setting that's "growing" things.

2. Maybe my wife, at some point, used mousewheel + Ctrl to magnify Fx and then forgot.

[Pallid Planetoid]

.... 2. Maybe my wife, at some point, used mousewheel + Ctrl to magnify Fx and then forgot.

Try adding the FF Zoom to the toolbar, right-click anywhere in toolbar, select "Customize..." and drag the Zoom feature to the toolbar (as illustrated in screen-shot) which will then display your setting for the webpage....

Zoom for FF.png (25.34 KiB) Viewed 1157 times