Not getting a quit warning :-(

[tlaloc77]

In about:config :
browser.showQuitWarning is set to True
browser.warnOnQuit is set to True
browser.download.manager.quitBehavior is set to 2 (default - minor questions: Is there any info about this? Where should I look for info about these settings?)

Edit, adding more info:
Pale Moon version: 27.4.2 (32 bit), (up to date, now)
Operating system: Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit).
Problem URL: -- (all)
Theme: original and Compact Moon, seems to not make a difference
Installed add-ons/extensions:
- ABL 4.0.1
- Cookies Exterminator 2.8.3
- Download Manager (S3) 4.13
- NoScript 5.0.6
- PM Commander 2.0.0
Installed plugins: (about:plugins)
- Adobe Acrobat, Version: 11.0.3.37
- Adobe Flash, Version: 11.1.102.63
Edit 2, disabling both plugins doesn't make a difference, I'll keep them disabled, don't need Acrobat, don't want Flash anyway.

So when I hit <Ctrl><Q> or click the X on the window frame, PM quits immediately.
Do I need to do something else to get this working?

[gracious1]

So when I hit <Ctrl><Q> or click the X on the window frame, PM quits immediately.
Do I need to do something else to get this working?

In the menu, do Edit > Preferences > General — or rather Tools > Options > General since you are using Windows.
If it is set to "Show my windows and tabs from last time", then you won't get the warning.
If it is set to "Show a blank page" or "Show my home page", then you will get the warning.

I really wish the warning would appear even when "Show my windows and tabs from last time" is enabled. Sometimes I have to type with a French keyboard, and they switch the Q and the A, so I can't tell you how many times I have lost data because I meant to hit Ctrl-A but instead hit Ctrl-Q.

[Moonchild]

I really wish the warning would appear even when "Show my windows and tabs from last time" is enabled.

No, that would be annoying as hell. If you have it set to restore the previous session, asking this on quit would be totally redundant.

[gracious1]

No, that would be annoying as hell. If you have it set to restore the previous session, asking this on quit would be totally redundant.

But did you read the rest of what I said? What happens is that I am typing with a French keyboard, which AZERTY instead of QWERTY, and sometimes I mean to "select all" with Ctrl-A but end up sending Ctrl-Q instead. Then PM quits, and I lose data, e.g. reply to a forum, or I screw up an online payment.

So it would be nice to have some kind of dialog that pops up and says, "Are you sure you want to quit?"
It doesn't have to ask to save tabs, just ask if I really want to quit.

[doofy]

So it would be nice to have some kind of dialog that pops up and says, "Are you sure you want to quit?"
It doesn't have to ask to save tabs, just ask if I really want to quit.

Tab Mix Plus allows you to set a warning when closing a window with multiple tabs.

Even if session restore is enabled.

[tlaloc77]

In the menu, do Edit > Preferences > General — or rather Tools > Options > General since you are using Windows.
If it is set to "Show my windows and tabs from last time", then you won't get the warning.
If it is set to "Show a blank page" or "Show my home page", then you will get the warning.

Ahh - that's it.

I really wish the warning would appear even when "Show my windows and tabs from last time" is enabled.

No, that would be annoying as hell. If you have it set to restore the previous session, asking this on quit would be totally redundant.

How can this be redundant I tend to open lots of tabs, often more than 300 at the maximum, then "reap" them from right to left. Now the browser closes without warning (often because I wanted to close a tab with Ctrl-W and had my fingertip a bit too far to the left). Unlike gracious1 I have not yet lost data because of this, but it is annoying like hell that then, after restarting, the browser needs to fetch all the data of the 300+ pages again - and now I can either wait several minutes until everything is back up or wait a few second every time I switch to another tab which probably amounts to even more time!!! I can understand that users don't want the warning at all, but the fact that it never appears on the condition that "restore last session" is on - how is this useful in any way? If you don't want the warning, you can switch it off, regardless of restoring the last session or not. I want the warning ESPECIALLY when many tabs are open (and restoring them all prevents loosing them, that's something alright, but the loss of time is still annoying as hell) and I CANNOT switch it on

So it would be nice to have some kind of dialog that pops up and says, "Are you sure you want to quit?"
It doesn't have to ask to save tabs, just ask if I really want to quit.

Tab Mix Plus allows you to set a warning when closing a window with multiple tabs.

Even if session restore is enabled.

Thank you very much, this may save the day! Of course it never occurred to me that I might need a tab manager to get a warning that the browser is expected to give me because I told it to do that. So Tab Mix Plus is it.

Edit: Yay that works! Phew

[adesh]

after restarting, the browser needs to fetch all the data of the 300+ pages again

You need to mark "Don't load tabs until selected" under Tab options, that way the browser will load only the active tab (per window).

No, that would be annoying as hell. If you have it set to restore the previous session, asking this on quit would be totally redundant.

I guess quit warning is there to warn users against accidental closing of the browser. If that is the case, the feature doesn't serve the purpose fully. I tend to use keyboard a lot and have accidently closed the browser few times with Ctrl+Q. Like others in this thread, I also feel that the behaviour is actually more annoying currently as it is.

[tlaloc77]

after restarting, the browser needs to fetch all the data of the 300+ pages again

You need to mark "Don't load tabs until selected" under Tab options, that way the browser will load only the active tab (per window).

That's the setting I currently have. It's giving me a delay of a few seconds every time I switch to a yet "unvisited" tab and thus annoys me and reminds me of the unnecessary reloads.

No, that would be annoying as hell. If you have it set to restore the previous session, asking this on quit would be totally redundant.

I guess quit warning is there to warn users against accidental closing of the browser. If that is the case, the feature doesn't serve the purpose fully. I tend to use keyboard a lot and have accidently closed the browser few times with Ctrl+Q. Like others in this thread, I also feel that the behaviour is actually more annoying currently as it is.

By the way: Is this behavior documented anywhere?
And with this I come to my minor questions: Is there any documentation about the settings, especially the numeric settings in about:config, and if yes, where can one find it?

I hardly dare, but here's an idea: Make browser.showQuitWarning numeric, with 0=off, 1=warn only when "restore last session" is not set (same as now), 2=warn always, which should be the default: Better a warning that is unneeded for some users (and can be switched off) than data loss.

And btw, what is browser.warnOnQuit for? Again: Documentation. The coolest solution would be a behind each option with a tool tip that explains the setting, about like old Opera had. The next best would be that all the would lead to a web page with the explanations (disadvantage: Needs a web page for every version of the browser), the third best would be just the web page with the hint somewhere, maybe in Help -> "About Pale Moon".

[Moonchild]

It's redundant because you already indicated that you want to save the session if you set your setting to "restore the windows and tabs from last time". You'll never lose your tabs that way when you close the browser (accidentally or not).

Design rule: a confirmation dialog should only be used when the action is directly destructive to data.
When a session is saved/restored by a user's preference, this is not the case.

As for unintended closure of the browser without confirmation: The user not paying attention to their own actions is not a browser defect. Restarting the browser will get you where you left off, so it's not desirable to punish the users who do pay attention to their actions with redundant dialog boxes (catering to even more "confirmation fatigue" that is already a problem in software) just because the users who don't pay attention are inconvenienced (but don't lose data) by their own actions.

[JustOff]

All arguments above seem reasonable to me so I guess the best solution would be to provide extra option to enable quit warning in any case. It's not so important for me personally because I use Tab Mix Plus just exactly in the same mode, but I can imagine how annoying the lack of such an opportunity could be.

[Moonchild]

And btw, what is browser.warnOnQuit for? Again: Documentation.

It's documented in the preference file, like many other preferences.

// browser.warnOnQuit == false will override all other possible prompts when quitting or restarting
pref("browser.warnOnQuit", true);
// browser.showQuitWarning specifically controls the quit warning dialog. We
// might still show the window closing dialog with showQuitWarning == false.
pref("browser.showQuitWarning", false);

The coolest solution would be a behind each option

Setting that up and maintaining that list for each pref change as we develop further is going to be a mammoth task we simply don't have the manpower for.

[coffeebreak]

minor questions: Is there any info about this? Where should I look for info about these settings?

. . . . especially the numeric settings in about:config, and if yes, where can one find it?

A few ways to search for such info:

• Mozillazine knowledge base - Eg. browser.warnOnQuit
• http://xref.palemoon.org/
• Copy the name of the preference in about:config (right click, 'Copy Name') and put it in a search engine...
• Or search on the name directly in this forum. Eg. browser.showQuitWarning

Also, there's an extension on AMO that displays preference descriptions, Config Descriptions. Apparently it searches the preferences files. I haven't tried it myself (and yes, it's written for Firefox) but you might take a look.

[tlaloc77]

Design rule: a confirmation dialog should only be used when the action is directly destructive to data.
When a session is saved/restored by a user's preference, this is not the case.

My most important design rule is that all behavior of an UI should create the least surprise for the user.

As for unintended closure of the browser without confirmation: The user not paying attention to their own actions is not a browser defect. Restarting the browser will get you where you left off, so it's not desirable to punish the users who do pay attention to their actions with redundant dialog boxes (catering to even more "confirmation fatigue" that is already a problem in software) just because the users who don't pay attention are inconvenienced (but don't lose data) by their own actions.

Srsly? I see a difference between unwanted behavior that can get changed and unwanted behavior that can not get changed.

Anyway, you think different than some users who were tricked by the "smartness" of this and you are the boss. With Tab Mix Plus it's no longer a problem, so "case closed" for me. Others who get bitten by this will hopefully find this thread and also see the solution.

And btw, what is browser.warnOnQuit for? Again: Documentation.

It's documented in the preference file, like many other preferences.

// browser.warnOnQuit == false will override all other possible prompts when quitting or restarting
pref("browser.warnOnQuit", true);
// browser.showQuitWarning specifically controls the quit warning dialog. We
// might still show the window closing dialog with showQuitWarning == false.
pref("browser.showQuitWarning", false);

Thanks for the pointers... hmmm... what's the name of said preference file? I found hints that it might be named palemoon.js or similar so I let windows search for files that contain "palemoon" in their name, but no file with the extension ".js" was found.

The coolest solution would be a behind each option

Setting that up and maintaining that list for each pref change as we develop further is going to be a mammoth task we simply don't have the manpower for.

Well, if it's documented in the preference file where you need to keep the documentation up-to-date anyway, all the browser needs to do is: Read that documentation from said preference file, too, and present it in tool tips.

[Moonchild]

We'll just agree to disagree about software design then.

[VGR-0]

Design rule: a confirmation dialog should only be used when the action is directly destructive to data.

All user interface design rules are subject to a golden rule: The design rule should be followed by default.

If the user specifically asks to see a confirmation dialog when quitting, you do what the user wants. A developer has no business overriding a user’s preference.

You don’t decide what fonts to render text in, if the user specifies they want a specific font. You don’t decide where to place windows, if the user moves a window to a certain place on the screen.

And if the user specifically requests a confirmation dialog when quitting, you don’t silently ignore the request because you think you know better.

When a session is saved/restored by a user's preference, this is not the case.

You think nothing is lost? What about the ordering of windows on a user’s desktop? What about videos that insist on playing from the start and don’t allow one to skip ahead? What about large uploads that take a while?

Not that it matters. Instead of trying to second-guess every possible scenario, please consider respecting a user’s explicit request for a confirmation dialog.

[Moonchild]

I'm not continuing this argument, but will say this as a generic remark about software development:

The user's wishes may be important, but they are not, ever, by themselves determining what is or isn't included in a piece of software. That is the developer's call to make. Users can indicate they would like to see something in software, but the developer has no obligation to implement everything users ask for. In fact, good development will never implement everything users ask for. Why? Because then you'd end up with software that tries to do everything for everyone, and ending up doing nothing for nobody due to internal conflicts of interest.

You want a quit dialog when it's not needed? Feel free to make an extension to do so.

[Moonraker]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but there is a checkmark in preferences-tabs.

[Usernope]

I know it's 4 months since this thread. But I was looking for answers too. And I'm surprised at the developer's instance that users just need to be more careful.

What of those of us with disabilities, who also can't use tab mix plus because it messes up our computers in some way or slows them down; but who need a confirmation to quit because we will accidentally close a window when trying to close a tab or something else?

And then we lose a comment (to be typed out again - painfully) or we lose something else?

We don't matter? Even for an opt-in option?

The developer is able-bodied enough for it to not matter, so it doesn't matter for anyone else? We should just... find a new browser?