27: thinner font in tabs, sidebar, + adds white lines

[safedisc2]

FEATURE?

Palemoon 27 uses noticeably thinner font for Tab and Sidebar text (Different font smoothing technique? Different default font thickness?)
Text was easier on my eyes in 26. Slightly darker, thicker.


BUG:
And it adds 1-2 pixel high line between rows in sidebar. Which adds useless space and makes fewer of them visible.
There might be more "white" space added, not only those lines, seeing how much longer my bookmark sidebar got.




Open pictures in new tabs and compare by switching between them if you can't notice the font difference. (BTW "History" and "Tools" are different too)
http://i.imgur.com/EjmcNYs.png
http://i.imgur.com/oTmkgMF.png


Lines and useless space visible here:


http://i.imgur.com/6OqMIvi.png
http://i.imgur.com/LMv7JE6.png


Windows 8.1

Visible in clean new Palemoon 27 with no addons or option changes too.

[Ozzed]

FEATURE?

Palemoon 27 uses noticeably thinner font for Tab and Sidebar text (Different font smoothing technique? Different default font thickness?)
Text was easier on my eyes in 26. Slightly darker, thicker.


BUG:
And it adds 1-2 pixel high line between rows in sidebar. Which adds useless space and makes fewer of them visible.




Open pictures in new tabs and compare by switching between them if you can't notice the font difference. (BTW "History" and "Tools" are different too)
http://i.imgur.com/EjmcNYs.png
http://i.imgur.com/oTmkgMF.png


Lines and useless space visible here:


http://i.imgur.com/6OqMIvi.png
http://i.imgur.com/LMv7JE6.png


Windows 8.1

Visible in clean new Palemoon 27 with no addons or option changes too.

And here I thought all text had gotten smaller.. I KNEW something was different, though I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

As someone with severe visual impairment, this is bad news for me. I've been able to use Pale Moon just fine without any accessibility tool until now, and here I find myself squinting.

I can't immagine why decreased legibility would be considered an improvement, so I really do hope this is a bug.

[safedisc2]

... and here I find myself squinting.

I can't immagine why decreased legibility would be considered an improvement, so I really do hope this is a bug.

exactly

[safedisc2]

Well, well, page text is rendered differently (and uglier IMO) too.
Smoothing not working or ... ?




http://i.imgur.com/lW5VhyL.png
http://i.imgur.com/g6Ix1Gp.png


- edit -


Well, 27 renders this font differently.

Open these two screenshots (page was Zoomed in with CTRL +) in new tabs
and compare A in Autor: and D in Datum: for example.

http://i.imgur.com/ErYm506.png
http://i.imgur.com/1e0wbUT.png

[Moonchild]

You are likely seeing the difference between Direct2D 1.0 (Pale Moon v26) and Direct2D 1.1 (Pale Moon v27) as far as the font rendering is concerned.

If you prefer 1.0 over 1.1, set gfx.direct2d.use1_1 to "false" in about:config and restart the browser.

As for the whitespace used in various toolkit-based screens, that will be looked at as part of our effort to get rid of the platform's "chameleon" styling that Firefox has let bleed over from its application code into the toolkit.

[safedisc2]

You are likely seeing the difference between Direct2D 1.0 (Pale Moon v26) and Direct2D 1.1 (Pale Moon v27) as far as the font rendering is concerned.

If you prefer 1.0 over 1.1, set gfx.direct2d.use1_1 to "false" in about:config and restart the browser.

As for the whitespace used in various toolkit-based screens, that will be looked at as part of our effort to get rid of the platform's "chameleon" styling that Firefox has let bleed over from its application code into the toolkit.

Thanks, that fixed the harder-to-read font problem.

-

It still renders the bold text differently for some reason tho.
At default zoom. When I zoom in, it's identical in both versions. ?(o_O)?

Check the "g" in Google Down for example.
The whole text is wider in 26 (and looks better in 26 IMO).
In 27 the letters are thicker and kinda bleed into each other. "oo" "wn",
And R and G are sharper on the left side in 26.




http://i.imgur.com/YMTnCYM.png
http://i.imgur.com/b7Ya2W2.png

-

BTW those white lines appear only after you move mouse over the bookmark/history sidebar

[Moonchild]

You will always see small differences because we moved to a new DirectX version for the back-end. You may probably want to look into tweaking the font rendering parameters if it's not comfortable enough for you at default levels (Pale Moon Commander can help there, even if it needs an update otherwise).

[Ozzed]

You will always see small differences because we moved to a new DirectX version for the back-end. You may probably want to look into tweaking the font rendering parameters if it's not comfortable enough for you at default levels (Pale Moon Commander can help there, even if it needs an update otherwise).

I found "ClearType rendering mode" In PM Commander, but I can't find a description of whatever the differences between the different modes might be.

[davews]

I also have big problems with font rendering. This is from http://www.independent.co.uk but it appears the same on many sites. Windows 10 x64.
(click on image to view full size to see the effect).

text.jpg

[satrow]

That Indy page looks fine from here, it's likely to be Add-on related or some previous customisation that's not supported, possibly related to DirectX changes for v27:

Indysnip.jpg

[back2themoon]

You might find some more hints in this older thread.

[safedisc2]

That Indy page looks fine from here, it's likely to be Add-on related or some previous customisation that's not supported, possibly related to DirectX changes for v27:

The blurriness on independent is brutal.


I doubt that is add-on related. Happens in clean 27 too.


Compare these, in new tabs, not zoomed

Windows 8.1, AMD with recent drivers, gfx.direct2d.use1_1 set to "false" for 27 in about:config

http://i.imgur.com/EJUjvRr.png
http://i.imgur.com/k3vMfq3.png

27 - much bigger font, blurry as hell


And this is clean install of 27 portable, no changes ( gfx.direct2d.use1_1 is "true"), no addons
http://i.imgur.com/2lQp5QN.png
damn blurry, check a, e, o, p, g

=========================

Maybe Palemoon 27 needs some default values tweaked for future releases after the rendering changes?

[Azarien]

You will always see small differences because we moved to a new DirectX version for the back-end.

Apparently Microsoft doesn't care about good font rendering anymore and their newer APIs display text like crap. The same thing happened with MS Office 2013 vs 2010.

[Freezing Moon]

No problems here with The Independent.
My Fonts settings in Pale Moon Commander :

http://imgur.com/a/Kjfn3

Edit :
I prefer space between bookmarks in bookmarks sidebar.
Before I used user style for that so it looks like bookmarks sidebar in Firefox.

[davews]

No problems here with The Independent.
My Fonts settings in Pale Moon Commander :

http://imgur.com/a/Kjfn3

Edit :
I prefer space between bookmarks in bookmarks sidebar.
Before I used user style for that so it looks like bookmarks sidebar in Firefox.

Interesting that some of you see these problems with the Independent and others don't. I have set my font settings in Pale Moon Commander exactly as yours and it makes no difference. The Independent is by far the worst site for these font problems and looking at the source (having now installed developer tools) it seems they use their own font family across the whole site. The body text in the examples pasted here is in 'Indy Serif'. Interesting some of the sites showing examples of that font look fine, it is just when it is used on the Independent itself that it looks bad, almost unreadable.

[satrow]

Could some of the differences be down to GPU type and drivers?

Nvidia 9xx GTX series here, 372.90 on W7 and no problem.

[Moonchild]

Adding the output of help -> troubleshooting information as text may help shed some light.
I'm using AMD video hardware myself and there is no discernible difference between v26 and v27.

You may also want to double-check that you haven't force-enabled smoothing in your AMD control panel for all 3D applications. Pale Moon uses Direct3D for hardware-accelerated rendering, and that will be influenced by forced settings for 3D games.

[davews]

Adding the output of help -> troubleshooting information as text may help shed some light.
I'm using AMD video hardware myself and there is no discernible difference between v26 and v27.

You may also want to double-check that you haven't force-enabled smoothing in your AMD control panel for all 3D applications. Pale Moon uses Direct3D for hardware-accelerated rendering, and that will be influenced by forced settings for 3D games.

My PC uses the ATI Radeon 3000. We already know that that has issues with some videos, not sure whether it does 3D but hardware acceleration is currently turned off.

Troubleshooting information attached - davews.txt

[safedisc2]

Interesting some of the sites showing examples of that font look fine, it is just when it is used on the Independent itself that it looks bad, almost unreadable.

I wonder what weird things they ask the browser to do.. PM26 probably happily ignores it


AMD 3D settings
http://i.imgur.com/vMRhCCv.png

Help Troubleshoot added


BTW bug? RGB - R
26
ClearType Parameters: Gamma: 2200 Pixel Structure: RGB ClearType Level: 100 Enhanced Contrast: 100

27
ClearType Parameters: Gamma: 2200 Pixel Structure: R ClearType Level: 100 Enhanced Contrast: 100

[safedisc2]

I can't edit previous post anymore, so:


Setting 27's
Advanced Options - Fonts - ClearType rendering mode to "GDI Classic"
fixed the independent site and blurry video titles in youtube's related list among other things.


Natural/GDI Natural looks good for page text, but unfortunately it blurs Menu Bar and adress/search bar texts. (in 26 and 27)
Aliased removes all texts everywhere in browser and leaves empty spaces. o_O
Natural symetric is ok for page, but makes bookmark sidebar extremely blurry in 27 (and blurs Menu Bar and adress/search bar in both 26 and 27)