Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

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flamelord
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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by flamelord » 2025-02-04, 05:22

digitalaudiorock wrote:
2025-02-04, 00:50
back2themoon wrote:
2025-02-03, 20:50
andyprough wrote:
2025-02-03, 15:56
And now Sourceforge is blocked due to this nonsense. How wonderful.
SourceForge should now work.
Wow. Reading that sourceforge forum thread, this as much bad news as it is good. I was hoping they might have the clout to get CF to actually fix this. Apparently sourceforge just altered their sites rules to let Palemoon though(?) but for us that fixes nothing but sourceforge.

I genuinely can't believe that CF just closed that thread on their community forum like that. I'm even more pissed that they seem totally fine with all the lying sack-of-s*** trolls that posted there, specifically because they troll on CF's side!...and this is who everyone appears to be making the official gatekeepers of the web. Welcome to the walled garden I guess. FFS.
I said it before... those ''trolls'' are hired shills by CF

Anyways, to go back to topic, I like that solution of simulating Chrome suggested by xissuesx in page 3

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gepus
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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by gepus » 2025-02-04, 10:14

andyprough wrote:
2025-02-04, 00:50
So this was just Sourceforge dropping the check for Pale Moon?
Most probably.

Did test the FrontPage of SF (https://sourceforge.net/) with Firefox ESR 115.19.0 and it gives an endless loop.
If I bypass the FrontPage, tested links (e.g. https://sourceforge.net/projects/mx-lin ... o/download) are working with Firefox ESR 115.19.0.

Not quite sure whom to blame, CF or SF? Looks to me to be a fishy game on purpose played by both of them...

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back2themoon
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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by back2themoon » 2025-02-04, 10:53

gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 10:14
Not quite sure whom to blame, CF or SF? Looks to me to be a fishy game on purpose played by both of them...
That sounds paranoid. SourceForge clearly explained that they can (and they did) tweak or disable their Cloudflare checks per browser. So, they tweaked or disabled their Pale Moon rules. How is Firefox ESR 115.19.0 (which IS outdated I believe) or any other browser related to any of this?

The problem here is Cloudflare. We can't possibly go after every single website on the planet, asking them to tweak their CF rules. Most of them will probably not bother, anyway. Blaming SF who provided an instant fix makes no sense. Blame CF and avoid conspiracy theories, please.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by back2themoon » 2025-02-04, 11:14

Apart from informing select websites about this, I am out of ideas here. Hacker News was mentioned - did anyone bother posting there instead of throwing every browser on the planet at the Cloudflare verification check?

As of today, using the self-report "Send feedback" tool has not helped with the two out of three websites I repeatedly reported. I don't even know if that tool reports back to Cloudflare, the website in question or both and if anyone seriously checks those reports.

If Cloudflare keeps remaining silent, an official move might be the only available next step at this point.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by gepus » 2025-02-04, 12:00

back2themoon wrote:
2025-02-04, 10:53
So, they tweaked or disabled their Pale Moon rules. How is Firefox ESR 115.19.0 (which IS outdated I believe) or any other browser related to any of this?
Irrespective of what you believe or not, Firefox 115.19.0 is still officially supported by Mozilla.
As for how any other browser is related to this, try to use your own reasoning power...

BTW
What next? Will SF disable CF-checks for every supported browser that fails the check?

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by back2themoon » 2025-02-04, 12:24

Off-topic:
gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:00
What next? Will SF disable CF-checks for every supported browser
Open another thread about SourceForge's intentions, hidden thoughts and secret plans.

This is about Cloudflare.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by gepus » 2025-02-04, 12:54

Off-topic:
back2themoon wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:24
Open another thread about SourceForge's intentions, hidden thoughts and secret plans.

This is about Cloudflare.
WTF, are you now giving me instructions?
Anything else useful among your 2619 posts?

EOD

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by digitalaudiorock » 2025-02-04, 12:57

Is anyone planning on opening up a new thread at Cloudflare? There's no way their "use another browser" resolution should stand. F that.

I suspect that the reality with CF's browser check is simply this: They're claiming to be able to do things that they can't possibly do while still supporting any browser independence, nor any standards. I'd guess they their checks likely exploit obscure, undocumented browser "quirks" that only occur in the browsers they support. I'd guess that most site maintainers that use it are totally unaware of that.

I sure hope everyone doesn't end up standing by while CF turns the web into a walled garden. This all just sucks,

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by back2themoon » 2025-02-04, 13:10

Off-topic:
gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:54
Irrespective of what you believe or not, Firefox 115.19.0 is still officially supported by Mozilla.

Really? Because Mozilla here says:
Firefox ESR 115 is now supported only on Windows 7-8.1 and macOS 10.12-10.14. Users on other operating systems should use Firefox ESR 128 instead.
Also, I didn't say it was unsupported. I said I believed it was outdated. So, you clearly have reading and comprehension issues.
gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:54
Off-topic:
WTF, are you now giving me instructions?
God forbid, no. Since you know everything and all.
gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:00
gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:54
Anything else useful among your 2619 posts?
Well, I've opened a few threads over at Cloudflare over the years, sometimes leading them to provide the fix. I've instantly posted and notified SourceForge about the current issue, which they immediately fixed. For your pleasure, too. Also helped several users over the years. I'd assume these to be useful, but you'd need some comprehension skills which as we established above, you don't have.
gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:54
EOD
Yes, Sir! :roll:

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by Moonchild » 2025-02-04, 13:35

Off-topic:
Second request for people to calm down and be careful with conspiracy theories, and please lay off the personal accusations. Cooldowns will be issued if necessary.
"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by andyprough » 2025-02-04, 14:07

gepus wrote:
2025-02-04, 12:00
What next? Will SF disable CF-checks for every supported browser that fails the check?
I would imagine that SF will end up being forced to do just that. It's nuts that Firefox ESR 115 is blocked, but not Luakit, which is used by nearly no one in comparison. It shows you the power of that "Safari" word in Luakit's user agent. I tried giving Firefox ESR 115 a Safari user agent but no dice - Cloudflare is clearly checking the user agent against fingerprints for browser internals.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by dinosaur » 2025-02-04, 15:52

flamelord wrote:
2025-02-04, 05:22
Anyways, to go back to topic, I like that solution of simulating Chrome suggested by xissuesx in page 3
You cannot "simulate Chrome" in a way that would allow you to pass Cloudflare checks: the latter is using hacks and the idiosyncrasies of the various browser Javascript engines in order to verify that you are indeed a human being using a browser, and not just a bot script. They basically fingerprint the browsers, and usual tricks such as User Agent strings won't fool Cloudflare.

The problem is precisely that their "technology" (or rather their hacks) relies on knowing how each browser intimately reacts to non-standard Javascript code, and that's why it breaks from one browser version to the other, and why they don't want to spend time supporting "non-standard" browsers.

This said, doing so, they are basically making themselves culprit of a Denial Of Service. I'm pretty sure it is suable...

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by digitalaudiorock » 2025-02-04, 19:36

dinosaur wrote:
2025-02-04, 15:52
You cannot "simulate Chrome" in a way that would allow you to pass Cloudflare checks: the latter is using hacks and the idiosyncrasies of the various browser Javascript engines in order to verify that you are indeed a human being using a browser, and not just a bot script. They basically fingerprint the browsers, and usual tricks such as User Agent strings won't fool Cloudflare.

The problem is precisely that their "technology" (or rather their hacks) relies on knowing how each browser intimately reacts to non-standard Javascript code, and that's why it breaks from one browser version to the other, and why they don't want to spend time supporting "non-standard" browsers.

This said, doing so, they are basically making themselves culprit of a Denial Of Service. I'm pretty sure it is suable...
This is exactly what I've been saying. Cloudflare is pretending to be capable of doing stuff they can't possibly do in any standards compliant manner. If they were, their crap should work on a browser that's never even been coded yet, if that browser were coded to standards.

And sure, the web if full of web sites that some jackass has coded to only work in specific browsers, but that's trivial compared to the same bullshit happening with what's becoming the gateway to most of the entire web!! This issue really needs a lot more publicity in the open source community, and for anyone who actually cares about standards and browser choice. This all needs to be screamed from the rooftops.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by BenFenner » 2025-02-04, 20:27

digitalaudiorock wrote:
2025-02-04, 19:36
This issue really needs a lot more publicity
Submit a story to Slashdot?

They accepted the most recent one I submitted:
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/22/11/2 ... age-format

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by xissuesx » 2025-02-04, 22:07

impossible to simulate chrome ? i didn't propose to load dummies in the vm.. & useragents don't exist for nothing, & when u change them,
cf reacts differently too, so cf is evidently collecting browser identity info.. it shouldn't be neglected in tests cause all tests add to a possible
way of bypassing their loop. & if java is providing data to cf, if there's a way to know what data is collected or sent, we have a chance
to simulate browsers in a minimal way & obtain the solution.
Always using latest pm version in x64, win8.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by back2themoon » 2025-02-04, 22:42

xissuesx wrote:
2025-02-04, 22:07
...we have a chance
to simulate browsers in a minimal way & obtain the solution.
Simulating other browsers is not a solution. In my opinion.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by xissuesx » 2025-02-04, 23:09

& 1) what prevents that ? & 2) what's the other option ?
Always using latest pm version in x64, win8.

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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by Moonchild » 2025-02-04, 23:10

And how exactly do people expect us to simulate Chrome? By implementing all the behaviour and quirks Blink has? Then we may as well not be our own engine.
"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Cloudflare Verification Loop issues

Unread post by xissuesx » 2025-02-05, 00:09

You're right moonie, & far from me the idea of having u implementing tones of elements from chromes or creating a double of chrome that would replace pm in a pm frame.. which would slow down the overall process. but in my mind, if the infos cf extracts in java can be found, we have a chance to have it modified. using a full clone of chrome's not my goal at all. i'm running out of ideas ((

maybe a nark would be the last option to direct us with the code of cf..

or a guy that worked for them before..
Always using latest pm version in x64, win8.


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