Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Users and developers helping users with generic and technical Pale Moon issues on all operating systems.

Moderator: trava90

Forum rules
This board is for technical/general usage questions and troubleshooting for the Pale Moon browser only.
Technical issues and questions not related to the Pale Moon browser should be posted in other boards!
Please keep off-topic and general discussion out of this board, thank you!
User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4159
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-10-01, 16:24

TheRealMaestro wrote:
2022-10-01, 15:39
I also find RSS confusing.
Why? Pale Moon directly supports feed detection for sites that offer it, and also has live bookmarks to subscribe to a site. An RSS URL added to a reader (either stick with live bookmarks, or paste the feed URL in a reader of your choice) will let it fetch latest updates from the site without you manually having to visit it or having to clutter your mailbox with newsletter subscriptions. It's a great way to follow news sites, forum replies and even latest versions of software on sites that offer it and superior to newsletter subscriptions that take up space in your email inbox, leaving your email free for actual emails from people or things like bills & financial statements. As an example, GHacks and Slashdot both have RSS feeds.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
Linux Mint 21 Xfce x64 on HP i5-5200 laptop, 12 GB RAM.
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 32966
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-10-01, 16:38

Drugwash wrote:
2022-10-01, 16:04
Sorry I asked. (I never learn)
Maybe you shouldn't ask if all you're going to do is find reasons why the answer is not to your liking... :silent:

Bottom line is there is no easy solution to the update dialog question. It's a compromise like many user-facing parts of the browser. If it doesn't work for you, then be receptive to alternatives offered, because you may simply not be able to get the cake and eat it too.
As it is, changes were already made to prevent the most obvious issue with it popping up (like removing some access keys and setting cancel to be a default option) but if you are in the middle of typing and keep mashing keys then yes, it's quite possible you hit the key to accept the update. It's uncommon enough of a scenario to fall by the wayside in considerations of the compromise. Alternatives are available by disabling updates and being informed in a different way. I'm open to alternative solutions but they should still remain within the realm of the existing compromise between informing/alerting users and not being too interfering.
"The best revenge is to not be like the person who wronged you." -- Marcus Aurelius
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb

User avatar
Drugwash
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 183
Joined: 2016-01-28, 12:08
Location: Ploieşti, Romania
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Drugwash » 2022-10-01, 17:46

Moonchild wrote:
2022-10-01, 16:38
Alternatives are available by disabling updates and being informed in a different way. I'm open to alternative solutions but they should still remain within the realm of the existing compromise between informing/alerting users and not being too interfering.
Haven't I already offered the toolbar button/icon solution? You never commented on that. Seems to be the most visible yet non-intrusive, and doesn't require absolutely no research/subscription/extra-app-installation/etc on user's part. Also doesn't depend on any OS-provided notification system.

So:
- Is it possible to spawn a button in either toolbar or statusbar as chosen by the user, when update is available?
- Is it possible to animate its icon, such as pulsating or similar in order to draw (more) attention to it?
- If classic popup method is desired by other users is it possible to have this button added as an add-on/extension that would automatically disable the classic method?

By the way, just earlier after a few sessions when it kept saying "Downloading update..." in the Help menu it finally popped up the dialog saying it was ready to update, meaning it downloaded the package (accidentally, without me being able to abort the operation) and now was going to forcibly update to new version, again without me being able to abort the operation (from within that dialog). I was able to postpone it and then manually delete the two update-related folders in main PM folder, but such thing cannot be required from every user that happens to inadvertently trigger the download.

Right now the reason I desire to delay the update is due to the few reports in the forums about audio breaking in certain situations, but there have been bad updates in the past, there may always be others - although we all hope not - and wouldn't want to find myself with a broken browser purely by accident.

Lucio Chiappetti
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 531
Joined: 2014-09-01, 15:11
Location: Milan Italy

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-10-01, 18:07

Personally I'm quite happy with the current update mechanism (in the past I was skeptical on frequent updates, but I have now converted to applying them regularly; at home (Xubuntu) as soon as I see the announcement of an update on the forum, I prepare my backup and wait for the popup and upgrade automatically; at work (Suse) where I need to to manual download, I do the same, but manually). But trying to give a constructive suggestion ...
Drugwash wrote:
2022-10-01, 17:46
Haven't I already offered the toolbar button/icon solution?
Not that I like to quote the competitor (adversary ?) but chrome displays a red button (update?) in the top right of its window (perhaps there is also a little non-blocking popup with an announcement), Would that be OK for the OP ?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. (G.B. Shaw)

User avatar
Drugwash
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 183
Joined: 2016-01-28, 12:08
Location: Ploieşti, Romania
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Drugwash » 2022-10-01, 18:36

Due to poverty I never had enough free space and/or the appropriate tools to perform backups. I could post a screenshot of all drives/partitions being at 99% full but it would be an off-topic waste of web space. Anyway, due to that situation I got to the point that I wait for a certain period of time, and read forum/GitHub/etc reports before actually accepting an update. People are different, conjectures are different, and that's precisely why there should be choices that cater to any and all situations however seldom or unlikely they may be.
Lucio Chiappetti wrote:
2022-10-01, 18:07
[...] chrome displays a red button (update?) in the top right of its window (perhaps there is also a little non-blocking popup with an announcement), Would that be OK for the OP ?
Personally I have never ever used Chrome so can't confirm or deny your allegement, but if it's true then it would be similar to what I suggested throughout this topic: show something that draws attention without automatically and inadvertently stealing keyboard/mouse focus; I see it, I click it, I choose whether to launch or dismiss the update - all knowingly and willingly, at my convenience. (the I/me/my is impersonal/generic)

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 32966
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-10-01, 18:50

Drugwash wrote:
2022-10-01, 17:46
is it possible to have this button added as an add-on/extension that would automatically disable the classic method?
It's certainly possible with an extension.
"The best revenge is to not be like the person who wronged you." -- Marcus Aurelius
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb

User avatar
Drugwash
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 183
Joined: 2016-01-28, 12:08
Location: Ploieşti, Romania
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Drugwash » 2022-10-01, 19:14

Moonchild wrote:
2022-10-01, 18:50
It's certainly possible with an extension.
That's good to know. Any (precise and useful) hints as to where to start, as in what APIs to use and how? I've dabbled in slightly modding an add-on or two but never started one from scratch, and considering my very bad memory a simple "RTFM" - as tempting as it may be - would do me absolutely no good.

User avatar
TheRealMaestro
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 215
Joined: 2019-08-13, 00:30
Location: Cosy Island

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by TheRealMaestro » 2022-10-01, 19:36

Might Gnotifier help you? I have never used it, but the description seems like it might work, either directly or modified.
moonbat wrote:
2022-10-01, 16:24
Why? . . . .It's a great way to follow news sites, forum replies and even latest versions of software on sites that offer it and superior to newsletter subscriptions that take up space in your email inbox, leaving your email free for actual emails from people or things like bills & financial statements.
Simply, I have never used an RSS reader and my habits are that I do not need one. I like visiting my favourite artists’ sites manually, as part of my routine. I can see why others would like RSS, and I have thought a few times about trying it myself, but checking on my own for what I like whenever I think of it works well enough for me. I am also slow enough checking my inbox that manual visits are faster than opening an RSS reader would be.
Browser: Pale Moon (Pusser’s repository for Debian)
Operating System: Linux Mint Debian Edition 4 (amd64)
※Receiving Debian 10 LTS security upgrades
Hardware: HP Pavilion DV6-7010 (1400 MHz, 6 GB)

User avatar
Drugwash
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 183
Joined: 2016-01-28, 12:08
Location: Ploieşti, Romania
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Drugwash » 2022-10-01, 19:43

TheRealMaestro wrote:
2022-10-01, 19:36
Might Gnotifier help you?
Thank you. Could be a source of information, at least in regard to interfacing with native OS notifications. That however in my vision would be at most an addition to the toolbar button idea that I'm locked on now, or as an alternative if the button is not preferred by some user. It's good to have choices though. :thumbup:

Goodydino
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 763
Joined: 2017-10-10, 21:20

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Goodydino » 2022-10-01, 21:21

The simplest idea might be to disable automatic updates for the application and check manually on the download page once in a while to see if there is an update that you want. I do that because I dislike automatic updates and prefer to do that manually.

User avatar
Drugwash
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 183
Joined: 2016-01-28, 12:08
Location: Ploieşti, Romania
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Drugwash » 2022-10-01, 21:36

There is a difference between automatic updates and automatic notifications of updates. That's why the Check [...] but don't [...] option exists. The only impediment here is the notification method.
If I were to leave it on manual check I'd probably remember to do that once in five major versions. Or once in five years - if I were to live that long.

Michaell
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 247
Joined: 2018-05-26, 18:13

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Michaell » 2022-10-02, 00:01

Goodydino wrote:
2022-10-01, 21:21
The simplest idea might be to disable automatic updates for the application and check manually on the download page once in a while to see if there is an update that you want. I do that because I dislike automatic updates and prefer to do that manually.
The only thing on the download page (assuming it's the PM site) that tells someone what the new current version is is the checksum section near the bottom. Not very obvious.
Win10home(1709), PM31.3-portable

User avatar
Drugwash
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 183
Joined: 2016-01-28, 12:08
Location: Ploieşti, Romania
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Drugwash » 2022-10-02, 05:28

Michaell wrote:
2022-10-02, 00:01
Not very obvious.
In all fairness there's the Release Notes page that always states what the latest version number is. That would be the most likely to check before going to the Downloads page (if necessary).
Last edited by Drugwash on 2022-10-02, 10:54, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 32966
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: Request: Replace update popup with non-intrusive alternative

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-10-02, 10:42

The main index page has a news box right above the fold that will always list the most recent release too.
"The best revenge is to not be like the person who wronged you." -- Marcus Aurelius
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb

Post Reply