What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

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Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by doofy » 2018-09-20, 21:38

badnick wrote:These things are understood by everyone.And I think in this way you will attract more people to use or try PM.
Dumbing down. The race to the bottom.

Not sure that's working out too well for Firefox atm.

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Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2018-09-20, 22:03

You can't "simplify" the names of libraries or technologies. XUL is XUL, NSS is NSS and TLS is TLS. If you call it anything else you're being inaccurate or even plain wrong. The only way to not be "technical" would be to not have any release notes at all, or something nondescript like "Fixed security issues" -- which will inevitably result in 10 threads "what was fixed?"

There is a simple solution: If you don't understand what it says, either ignore it as "not important for me to know the details of" or ask pointed questions on the forum and educate yourself with the answers.
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Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by therube » 2018-09-21, 01:53

I think at least 90 % from users of any browser don't understand this kind of technical explanation ... Maybe after each technical explanation you should write which from the following features improves : browser speed/videos playing/sites compatibility/security/CPu load/RAM consumption/ Interface features..etc. These things are understood by everyone.
I'd say that is a very fair critique.

For the 90%, looking down the list, http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml, some items will fall into place, understandable - without understanding the underlying technical aspects, & then others are more like, huh, what & would just be glossed over, never to know the consequences.

Easy to "present a list of changes".
Harder, or at least more time consuming, to make more meaningful for the 90%.
Nobody wasting time to search on internet what means XUL, NSS ,TLs, etc, etc etc It's like when you go to doctor for dick pain and the doctor tells you have "Treponema pallidum " instead of syphilis.
Agreed, basically.
Those "terms" are thrown about like everyone understands them. Most times I'll have some idea, or at least I'll understand that there is differentiation between say PM's (oh, what is that techy term that's escaping at present) vs. whatever FF may call its' similar feature, & by being different, well what works on one end may not work on the other. And so long as I aware of such potentialities I don't have to understand the actual underpinnings of those techy words (that are escaping me, presently). Unified, that's it, UXP.

Thehandyman1957

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-09-21, 02:30

prosecco wrote:Thanks, but when I look at all the info provided there, it shows a lot of technical details which don't mean really that much to me (although I do have an idea what it is about of course, I am not illiterate). I am just a Pale Moon user, and I don't really care whether my browser is based on this or that or something other like XUL or UXP or whatever else may come along.
Your questions are valid but your response leaves it hard to explain. In essence it's like having a truck that is
leased to you for a certain amount of time. You leased the truck so you could do X amount of things with it.
So they gave you a truck that would meet your needs. But after two years your needs or say (the internet)
changed and now the truck ( no matter how many upgrades they put on it) simply won't do what you need it
to do. Bad News right? Not really you see, they actually knew that your old truck would not work with your new
needs and decided to build a new one with a brand new upgraded engine and suspension (XUL, UXP)
that could handle all the new things the roads you travel on ( The internet) dish out.
You see what I mean? Those release pages were written for technically minded people, who are coders, maintainers, programmers, what have you.
I understand that it does not seem worth your time to dig into the technical descriptions of what makes the
new browser version different than the old one, or that they make any real sense to you.
But what if after getting the new truck (browser) you asked the dealer (dev team) why you really needed
this new truck (browser) and why they simply could not upgrade the older truck (browser) to meet your needs.
And at the time you told them that you didn't want any technical explanations or heavy details, just cut to the
chase and give it to me in simple terms? :wtf: Their going to stop, think about it a minute and tell you this.

The old truck (browser) simply won't work on the roads (internet) any more without putting you in jeopardy
(Security) and perhaps not even get you there (web sites not loading or working properly).
Besides, my question was not pertaining specifically to 28. It was about the basic principle.

You cannot separate the two. The basic principle has to do with the reason for the upgrade to 28.
I mean, once you have something that works, why replace it with something else? Granted you need to make sure glitches, flaws, holes and whatnot are fixed. OK, the upgrade to 28 is something else as there is the UXP
migration thing but this is a special case.
This is where your logic is flawed, you assume that in 27 everything was working.
This is not true, and no matter what they did, there was simply no way to fix those
issues with the old engine and suspension (non XUL,UXP browser).
The whole thing about XUL, UXP and it's ability to do what the old browser
could not do cannot really be explained properly unless you understand the basics of those principles.
And since you already said you don't want or care to know about those principles
your going to have to settle for the simple answer. ;)
Last edited by Thehandyman1957 on 2018-09-21, 02:33, edited 3 times in total.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2018-09-21, 02:37

YOU don't even know what you are talking about.. XUL has nothing to do with the specific WEB features mainly javascript for why doing UXP was desirable..

Does no one listen to me or read what I post? What Moonchild posts? What anyone posts dozens to hundreds of times in the past four years? Stop posting things and go read every damned thread I and Moonchild and travis and justoff and others have written in for the past at LEAST two years.. THEN come back here and explain it properly.

If this shit keeps up I am gonna have my self banned again.
Last edited by New Tobin Paradigm on 2018-09-21, 02:41, edited 5 times in total.

Thehandyman1957

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-09-21, 02:39

therube wrote: And so long as I aware of such potentialities I don't have to understand the actual underpinnings of those techy words (that are escaping me, presently). Unified, that's it, UXP.
And that is the crux of the situation in a nut shell. The issue with the OP is that
he clearly states that he does not have even the basic understanding of the terms
and that he neither wants to understand them nor cares what they mean.

How are we supposed to explain anything with that type of response? :crazy:

Thehandyman1957

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-09-21, 02:41

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:YOU Don't even know what you are talking about.. XUL has nothing to do with the specific WEB features mainly javascript for why doing UXP was desirable..

Does no one listen to me or read what I post? What Moonchild posts? What anyone posts dozens to hundreds of times in the past four years?

If this shit keeps up I am gonna have my self banned again.
Calm down and take a pill. I was deliberately vague for a reason. :shh:

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2018-09-21, 02:41

Thehandyman1957 wrote:Calm down and take a pill. I was deliberately vague for a reason. :shh:
Well stop it. You are chatting nonsense. Additionally, it is PISSING ME OFF!
Last edited by New Tobin Paradigm on 2018-09-21, 02:42, edited 1 time in total.

Thehandyman1957

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-09-21, 02:43

Also, if you had taken the time to look, you would have seen that I edited the post to include UXP. ;)

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2018-09-21, 02:44

Thehandyman1957 wrote:Also, if you had taken the time to look, you would have seen that I edited the post to include UXP. ;)
Still pissing me off. Please, stop.

Thehandyman1957

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-09-21, 02:44

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
Thehandyman1957 wrote:Calm down and take a pill. I was deliberately vague for a reason. :shh:
Well stop it. You are chatting nonsense. Additionally, it is PISSING ME OFF!
Your anger is your own issue. Deal with it. :problem:

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Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by doofy » 2018-09-21, 02:47

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:If this shit keeps up I am gonna have my self banned again.
Nurse - Tobin's having another one of his turns...

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Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by therube » 2018-09-21, 03:02

The issue with the OP is that he clearly states that he does not have even the basic understanding of the terms
He absolutely did not.
He asked a very "basic" (in his words) open ended question.

And when given a very basic, direct response, I guess he didn't like what he got.

and that he neither wants to understand them nor cares what they mean.
How are we supposed to explain anything with that type of response?
Now that is an entirely different matter, & this thread should be locked on that alone.
Though the points brought up by badnick do deserve merit & should be the only reason for this thread to remain.

fillerup

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by fillerup » 2018-09-21, 03:23

one of the worst threads i've seen on this forum... just read the damn release notes and if there's something you don't understand, ask. but if you really can't be bothered, here are the primary improvements:

- compatibility with larger range of websites
- updated rendering engine
- smoother media playback

Thehandyman1957

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-09-21, 03:40

therube wrote:He absolutely did not.
I am just a Pale Moon user, and I don't really care whether my browser is based on this or that or something other like XUL or UXP or whatever else may come along.

You see what I mean? Those release pages were written for technically minded people, who are coders, maintainers, programmers, what have you.
Yes, he did. And my point was valid. :angel:

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2018-09-21, 04:31

Well, I am sorry for being all aggravated. I am returning to my position that the OP is choosing ignorance and until he chooses otherwise we all should stay the hell out of this thread. k? :tired:

Thehandyman1957

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-09-21, 04:47

Agreed! :angel:

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Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by van p » 2018-09-21, 06:11

prosecco, I'm not a programmer-type either, and most release notes are Greco-Roman to me. That being said--

Why are we all not still driving a Model T? Why are you not wearing animal skins or a sheet wrapped around you? Uh, could it be because things change? Why did the Wright brothers not fly a 747 in 1903? The tendency is that things improve over time. Every piece of software on your machine went through many trials, tribulations, and iterations. No software is the same as it used to be and won't be the same the next time it changes. Would you rather be using Windows 1.0, or whatever it was called? If 27 was perfect, it wouldn't make sense to change it. So the simple/obvious answer to your question is that things improve. No complicated answer is necessary. After a while, with enough changes, the name/number changes. So if 27 is good enough for you, let it lie. (As can be seen from my Signature, I haven't made the switch yet. I'm just waiting for the dust to settle.)
Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 8GB i5-4570|Pale Moon v33.0.1 x64

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Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2018-09-21, 07:43

I'll strike you all a deal:

Someone can step up and offer to make a "simple" version of the release notes every time we have a new release that explains everything in a limited vocabulary that doesn't require anyone reading it to actually use more than 5% of their brain, let alone having to use the web (gasp!)to learn what certain terms mean. This "simple" version should provide a complete translation/transcription of the "technical" release notes, not leaving anything out or making things too ambiguous.

If that's done, I'll be more than happy to publish it alongside the normal release notes.

If nobody is willing to do this, then please stop complaining about how the release notes are written. Step up or step out, people.
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"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
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fillerup

Re: What is the basic difference between vs 27.x and 28.x?

Unread post by fillerup » 2018-09-21, 08:03

badnick wrote:I agree somehow with @prosecco .The explanations from each release are too technical. I think at least 90 % from users of any browser don't understand this kind of techinacal explanation because they work in other branches and have no skills in this domain. Maybe after each technical explanation you should write wich from the following features improves : browser speed/videos playing/sites compatibility/security/CPu load/RAM consumption/ Interface features..etc. These things are understood by everyone.And I think in this way you will attract more people to use or try PM.
so i decided to look at Chrome's release notes.. the official site shows only commit logs that i could find.. e.g. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chrom ... er&n=10000.

so i look at the Chrome version history article on Wiki, here's the changelog for their latest stable:
"A number of fixes and improvements."
HTTP sites marked as "not secure".[r 161]
The Page Lifecycle API tells you when your tab has been suspended or restored.
The Payment Handler API makes it possible for web-based payment apps to support the Payment Request experience.
Content embedded in an iframe requires a user gesture to navigate the top-level browsing context to a different origin.
Since Chrome 1, the CSS cursor values for grab and grabbing have been prefixed; standard, un-prefixed values now supported
the generic line at the start aside, it is written in a slightly more simple (less technical) yet corporate style. i don't think it is drastically more simple that people who don't understand PM release notes will be able to understand this. we also already explicitly highlight the benefits of each change in the release notes, so if users still find it overly complicated, that's on them.
Last edited by fillerup on 2018-09-21, 08:23, edited 1 time in total.

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