PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages Topic is solved

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DmFedorov

PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-10, 22:12

I have found similar theme: Pale moon 25 - JS debugger doesn't work
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6027&p=38521&hilit=debugger#p38521

Now Debugger tab (from the Web Developer tools) don't works with all (~70..90) "chrome...xul pages" such as:
chrome://browser/content/preferences/preferences.xul
chrome://global/content/console.xul
chrome://browser/content/preferences/languages.xul

But in CyberFox Debugger tab works with such pages.
Therefore, I can not change Pale Moon interface (and i can't report into the forum about errors and omissions of this interface), because I can't find the exact place where is omission.

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by Moonchild » 2016-06-10, 22:29

This is not a bug.
If you want to debug the chrome of the browser itself, you should use DOMi or similar. "I can do this in Cyberfox" really has no bearing on Pale Moon and is not a reason to call this a bug in the browser's devtools :)
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by Lootyhoof » 2016-06-11, 00:06

I'd definitely recommend DOM Inspector with the Element Inspector addon. Then, you can press shift + right click on anything to open DOMi (this includes both content and chrome).

I wouldn't recommend using devtools to debug chrome, in any case.

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-11, 00:52

If this is your policy, then of course it's not a bug.

I now tried to work in DOM Inspector. He is much less functional. It's just the antediluvian version of the Developer tools.
Strictly speaking it is not a debugger, it's just a viewer.

The thing is that I'm not a programmer and I don't have to be them, to change one trifle in the interface.
So my method of working to improve the interface is a method of comparison. It is quite effective.
But I can not download the two tabs and compare the same type of line in different Xul pages.

I see it: "I wouldn't recommend using devtools to debug chrome, in any case."
What makes you restrict me in this place?
Maybe you will make a checkbox in "about:config", which will enable debug the application interface?
Or better in the debugger tab to get permission of working with chrome-pages only one session, if i have clicked debugger on such page.
---------------
OK. First request (the easiest):

on the page about:addons I do not have opportunity to copy text. I have it in CyberFox, but not in PaleMoon.
It really is necessary copy text right in this tab, and paste text into the search field.
------------
If such requests will not strain you, I will be pleased to report you all places requiring improvement.

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2016-06-11, 01:27

We never had that functionality to begin with so I don't know how we are restricting you because it seems like you are assuming that we took the ability away from you which is not the case. Also, why would a non-developer need what is by definition and actually in name.. Developer Tools that can access the chrome space scripts and documents? Another question.. What is wrong with DOMi matched with the Error Console has been the go-to set of tools for a lot longer than Other browsers that we are not and never will be again has had. Yes it is older but it is also stood the test of time and is quite effective.

As for your strategy of comparing differences.. You can always look at the source code.

Here is a question.. Exactly what is it you want to do with this ability anyway? Maybe we can help point you in the right direction.
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-11, 05:34

Do not misunderstand me: You have created the best product in the line. I've tested and compared: your program is the quickest and it uses minimum of resources.
This job makes first invisible part (of the iceberg), which performance can improve only the same as you developers. We (users) can only suggest, lead one to believe, give examples, but we can not change.

The second part (interface) traditionally may change user. The more user-friendly interface, the more users you have (interface don't means coloring of program).
Here you too, in some ways ahead of others. I appreciated it when I saw two extra columns in bookmarks manager.
But the current understanding what is the standard of comfort is much broader. I'm used to this standard as you are used to that the store has a cash register.
And you pretend that there is no standard that all so convenient. But you see that you have not very much users. And it's because you are so far from the standard as SeaMonkey from you.
We never had that functionality to begin with so I don't know how we are restricting you
Me restricts your decision: debugger for interface is everywhere, but not here.
Exactly what is it you want to do with this ability anyway? Maybe we can help point you in the right direction.
I want to have a user-friendly interface, but I don't really believe that you will make it (even if I spend many time and describe all the places that needs finalizing). I have reason to think so.

I've just made request: and you have ignored it. And so it will be until I do the work myself.

Me and others much more convenient to use debugger (that perfectly working, built-in, tested and similar to others) than installing add-ons debugger and examine it in two old extentions (which obviously are not for beginners, where I must learn all secrets of its work like as it was Vim Editor)

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2016-06-11, 06:05

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the Pale Moon Web Developer Tools. They are intended to be used to assist with content code (websites) development and debugging. We do not and never have provide any built in functionality beyond the Toolkit Error Console that can be used for actual front end development.

There is little reason to provide this to any standard user who would be lost as to what to do with it. UI chrome development is not something standard users will be doing and would take a great amount of time and effort to integrate this. This kind of functionality has a very limited benefit to the bulk of our userbase. However, and thankfully due to our superior extensibility facilities you could write an extension to provide the kind of debugging abilities that would be useful that subset of users or to you specifically.

As a matter of history our built in Web Developer Tools previously existed solely as an extension.

Regardless, Pale Moon aims to be a general use browser not a developer framework set of tools and, to the extent we can get away with in today's world, not a specialized multimedia player. While there is certainly potential in the kind of functionality you desire this need not nor should be apart of the core product.

As for the matter of our user interface specifically.. We follow a more traditional and established UI standards view on UX design. We can throw around the "chrome-clone" or "modern/post-modern" buzzwords around but try justify our position on this but simple we try and strike the most sane balance on useability and design that is most familiar for our target users. However, I don't know exactly what your issues are with our UX but that is our position on that.
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-11, 06:55

I understood you from the first time. All that I wrote was only the answer to your questions.
I don't want and I don't suggest you to change a form of dialogues... I should only make everything convenient.
If sorting of a column is necessary (because it is convenient) - let there will be a sorting.
If it is necessary to add command (which exists) to context menu (but you forgot that it is very necessary in this place) - this command should be inserted.
If I can't copy the text and I need to copy it - it is necessary to correct this defect.
If somewhere there is no column which is simply necessary (data for it exist) - it is necessary to add the necessary column.
If the full-screen mode is inconvenient it is possible to try to make such mode which would be convenient.
--------------
This all is abstractly.

But can you answer me from 3 attempts?
First request (the easiest):

on the page about:addons I do not have opportunity to copy text. I have it in CyberFox, but not in PaleMoon.
It really is necessary copy text right in this tab, and paste text into the search field.
according to your answer I will judge are you ready or not to do such things?

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2016-06-11, 07:11

Okay.. If I understand what you want you should select and right click the add-on and go to Show More Information. Then from that you can select the add-ons name and description and do ctrl-c to copy it. Is this what you meant?

Also, in the future could you please be more specific. Much of what you have stated is exceedingly vague.
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-11, 07:26

Exactly.

In addition it was better to make the same in dialogue "about" by a call it from context menu there.
As it seems to me there is additional information.
If I don't have opportunity to copy this information, I must type it or must open the file Install.rdf

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-11, 07:56

OK. I have to go.
I understood a request to specify a situation about that what I want - as the answer Yes.
It is good news.

Certainly in the future I will be even more specific and I won't feel sorry for words, so that my offer you (and other) could understood literally.
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by Moonchild » 2016-06-11, 09:03

Apologies if I poorly understand your wording, I sense some automated translation tool at work here that loses context...

I think, instead of going out of your way to get a developer tool working on Chrome, and make edits and improvements to your copy of the browser only (something you'd have to repeat with each update as well), you should really look into submitting code patches to the project or suggest specific edits to existing code.
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-11, 09:38

Yes, my English is bad.
The thing is that I never spoke in this language.
-----------
Now i have a bit of suggestions for improving the interface (10-20).
Some of them are very simple.
----------
I think, instead of going out of your way to get a developer tool working on Chrome,... you should ...suggest specific edits to existing code.
Yea. But in this case I can make suggestions only using words, pictures, pieces of someone else's code that does what I need.
After a patch to check it, I should find a set of the changed files (usually it is 2-4 files).
------------
Anyway question:
If, for example, I have a few suggestions regarding the tabs: I need to create one theme (to place all them in one theme) or create few themes?

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by Fedor2 » 2016-06-14, 06:34

I wonder did the debugger work ever before?

I think that some day it can be fixed. If this is impossible to do, then why keep it at all.

But now there are more important and more urgent issues to fix

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by Moonchild » 2016-06-14, 19:24

The debugger works just fine on the content it is designed for (web page content).
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2016-06-14, 21:37

Let me be absolutely clear, despite Moonchild already stating it.

The Web Developer Tools that include a Debugger, that are built-in to Pale Moon has NEVER had the ability to view or debug the application chrome or extensions.

Your confusion, I suspect, is coming from the fact that later versions of Firefox included Developer Tools that gained this ability.

Pale Moon is NOT Firefox and never will be again. Please do NOT assume just because Firefox has or does something that Pale Moon has or will have the same thing or will do it in the same way.
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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by DmFedorov » 2016-06-14, 22:37

In settings of PaleMoon's developer tools missing many items of FireFox's developer tools, but not item "Enable chrome debugging"
Or words "Enable chrome debugging" means something else?

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Re: PaleMoon 26.2.2: Debugger tab don't works with chrome...xul pages

Post by Moonchild » 2016-06-15, 06:06

Yes it means something else. It does not mean "debugging chrome files when loaded in the content area/individually"
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