Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

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PaleTim
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Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by PaleTim » 2019-11-06, 12:01

I used to copy logins.json, key3.db, cert8.db (directly as files, with extensions) from PM to Firefox (I used old FF 38) as a backup. It worked, including master password.
But I now noticed that same old FF cannot properly read logins transfered from PM. Master password in PM is unchanged and it works.
Pages in FF invoke master password dialog on page load, so I'd say that logins are there. But typing the same master password doesn't work.
In Preferences master password appears to be present (Use a master password ticked), but when I click Saved Password.. and type it, not OK, like it's not that one.
Can say if it's PM 28.7.2 I use in Windows or what. But smells like a bug.

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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-11-06, 12:17

Pale Moon profile data is not compatible with Firefox and vice versa. Additionally, direct profile data manipulation is not supported.

Basically, your profile data is now corrupt due to your own acts of ignorance and depending on what you have done you very well may be screwed forever. In any event, we cannot and will not help you at this point. You are on your own.

Have a nice day.
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by PaleTim » 2019-11-06, 12:28

What you wrote is not only unpolite but also probably not correct.
One of the reasons I came to PaleMoon is exactly that, keeping basic login data from my old FF, that could be reused everyhere, sent beck to FF or Waterfox or whatever.
But with "support" like this, I regret it now.

To repeat, data is OK in PM, both logins and master password. It's copying that's wrong.
Per viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21267&p=159811 and my previous experience, simple file copying back to FF of those files worked. My case is even more simple, I use old FF and there's no conversion from NSS dbm to sql.
I see no reason why it would stop working, unless it's a bug. Or PM started doing the same or worse than FF, changing format.

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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-11-06, 12:46

The problem is simple: we strengthened the encryption used with master passwords that no version of Firefox currently supports. Just because later Firefox versions are incompatible with us and that being the more common situation when people try to copy profiles between the applications, we also don't have any sort of requirement to remain compatible with old Firefox versions. This is the nature of using a maintained fork of something; development happens, and compatibility with what it was forked from is not guaranteed in any way, shape or form. Pale Moon is not Firefox.

This kind of change is exactly why directly copying files from one application's profile to another is unsupported and you are on your own if you do. We have to be strict about this because it is simply no end to a time sink if we try to solve problems in these kinds of situations. Being strict is not being impolite, and Tobin was absolutely correct.
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by PaleTim » 2019-11-06, 13:56

I guess it's v28.6.0? "Updated NSS to a custom version to have better encryption strength for master passwords."
Is that all documented somewhere, what was previous NSS encryption, current PM one, current FF.
I don't understand why I cannot open there if there was no change of my master password i.e. no "re-key".
I'm dissatisfied with this. And I don't know how justified is that in terms of brute force to crack previous encryption, it never seemed an issue to me.

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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-11-06, 15:08

To be blunt and maybe rude, legitimately this time, there are other users and concerns beyond what you and what you personally want.
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by karlkracher » 2019-11-06, 17:21

In case you copied files from your pale moon profile into your firefox profile but NOT in the reverse direction your pale moon profile should be ok.

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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by moonbat » 2019-11-07, 00:59

Also, don't depend on your browser alone to remember passwords. Use an external password manager, preferably open source like Bitwarden.
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by coffeebreak » 2019-11-07, 05:44

PaleTim wrote:
2019-11-06, 12:01
I used to copy logins.json, key3.db, cert8.db (directly as files, with extensions) from PM to Firefox (I used old FF 38) as a backup. It worked, including master password.
But I now noticed that same old FF cannot properly read logins transfered from PM. Master password in PM is unchanged and it works.
Try the following:
  • Install Password Backup Tool v1.2.1 to both Pale Moon and your Firefox 38. Then use it to export your passwords from Pale Moon (you can export either to an .xml or .csv file).
  • Reset all your passwords in Firefox, including the master password, by putting the following in the address bar and hitting Enter, then clicking Reset (see Mozillazine-kb, Resetting the master password):

    Code: Select all

    chrome://pippki/content/resetpassword.xul
  • I'm not entirely sure if it's necessary, but suggest that you restart Firefox after resetting the passwords.
  • Use the Password Backup Tool to import your passwords to Firefox from the backup file you made earlier.
  • After checking that it's all ok, set a master password again for Firefox.

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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by PaleTim » 2019-11-07, 08:14

I thank to all who gave an advice or help. Except Tobin.
But I use file copying as a (manual) backup for everything, files and browser, export-import will not do. And I've never used on-line password manager, just plain old KeePass.

There are 2 issues here for which I'd like to see an explanation:
1. what was previous NSS encryption, current PM one, current FF
2. what's the justification, what was the reason for change, who are "other users" and what were their "concerns" for this?

I may be a minority, OK, but I think there should be an explanation for a move with which PaleMoon is not a base compatible browser in terms of login info but a new fork.

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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-11-07, 08:22

PaleTim wrote:
2019-11-07, 08:14
Except Tobin.
Fuck off, moron.
PaleTim wrote:
2019-11-07, 08:14
i think there should be an explanation
You were already given one.
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by coffeebreak » 2019-11-07, 10:39

PaleTim wrote:
2019-11-07, 08:14
But I use file copying as a (manual) backup for everything, files and browser, export-import will not do.
If that's the case, you're out of luck in this particular situation.

The explanation was already given by Moonchild above.

If it doesn't support your personal style of "backing up" and "syncing" passwords, that's just how it is.
There is no legitimate expectation that a fork (whose point is to follow its own direction) should maintain file interchangeability with an old version of the software from which it is forked. And certainly a change that strengthens password security doesn't need "explanation" beyond the fact of what it is.

BTW...
If you are in fact using KeePass as your third-party password manager (which you didn't mention in your original post), you should be able to use it to solve your Firefox password issues, right...?
And if somehow that doesn't work for you, feel free to try the solution that I posted above, whether it's your preferred method or not. But copying over files between the profiles of the two browsers is not and will not be an option.

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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by moonbat » 2019-11-07, 11:07

PaleTim wrote:
2019-11-07, 08:14
I may be a minority, OK, but I think there should be an explanation for a move with which PaleMoon is not a base compatible browser in terms of login info but a new fork.
What part of being a fork do you not understand, and where did you encounter the claim that it is a 'base compatible browser' and that translates to everything being perfectly intercompatible?
Tomorrow if I find a user profile from Mozilla Suite circa 2001-02, I can't expect it to load correctly in present day Firefox even though the latter is a fork of the same codebase.
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by PaleTim » 2019-11-07, 13:34

I asked for a concrete info and I'd be glad to see it:
1. what was previous NSS encryption and current PM one and where is it documented, and to understand what is current FF encryption
2. what's the justification/concerns, what was the reason to strengthen the encryption used with master passwords?


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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by Sartorix » 2019-11-10, 19:03

PaleTim wrote:
2019-11-06, 12:01
I used to copy logins.json, key3.db, cert8.db (directly as files, with extensions) from PM to Firefox
...
But smells like a bug.
First off all I think this topic doesn't belong to "Bug reports (Windows)" cause the "strengthening of the encryption used with master passwords" in Pale Moon is not a bug but a welcomed feature for a higher security level than the poor'n'easy-to-crack Firefox encryption of master passwords.

This topic should be moved to "General support"
(or to "Off-Topic" - just to tease our beloved sheriff :wave: :angel: )

Well, now, if you work on file level, do it right, it's not difficult :!:
  • It took me 5 precious minutes of my life to figure out how to do it :ugeek: :

    0.) May be make a backup of the concerning profiles before doing anything.

    1.) In preferences/security of both Palemoon and Firefox uncheck the item "use master password".

    2.) Close both browsers.

    3.) Delete or rename all cert*.db, key*.db and logins.json files in your desired Firefox profile.

    4.) Copy cert8.db, key3.db and logins.json from the relevant palemoon profile to the favored Firefox profile.

    5.) Start Firefox and... look and behold! :o ... your login data is transferred.

    6.) For your security, re-enable the master password then (in both browsers).
I tested it successfully with Pale Moon 28.7.2 and Firefox 68.2.0-ESR :thumbup:

The doing of this post took me more life time than to check how this shit works ;) :coffee:
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-11-10, 20:34

Alea iacta est!

(topic moved)
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Re: Master password for logins exported to Firefox stopped working

Unread post by Sartorix » 2019-11-10, 20:57

Pro salute omnium :-D
"Always look on the bright side of life"
>>Eric Idle<<

"Asshole is an essential member of the human body - who despises it might mistakenly use the mouth in its place"
>>unknown platitudinarian<<

"Laedere numquam velimus, longeque absit illud propositum potius amicum quam dictum perdendi"
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