is this Android build unauthorised?

[athenian200]

Seems fair enough. Buy yourself a Claude AI Pro subscription and prompt it to go to town on creating an Android 4.4 compatible build of Pale Moon! And share your build with us so we can poke around at it! Could be fun.

Though I'd add the caveat that it of course should NOT be distributed with the Pale Moon branding... we haven't authorized an Android build, and that is unlikely to change.

[blue_dragon]

of course should NOT be distributed with the Pale Moon branding

aye i personally also like the name called New Moon & the dark-silver moon icon too. but i still have an opinion that even if that scam app developer changes the app name to New Moon it wont be acceptable for me because it doesnt seem to even use the Goanna engine platform

is this 'New Moon' also trademarked by the way?

[andyprough]

Though I'd add the caveat that it of course should NOT be distributed with the Pale Moon branding... we haven't authorized an Android build, and that is unlikely to change.

Excellent point. I assume that branding will be a relatively simple thing to manage compared to getting a modern version of "Droid Moon" or whatever it ends up being called running on old Android.

i want a modern & reliable browser on old mobile devices which still works just fine

By the way, have you ever seen my how-to on installing an ARM version of Pale Moon on an Android tablet using a Linux emulation layer? https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=28104

I haven't tried it in a couple of years and don't know if all the apps you need are still available, or if they run on Android 4.4, but it might be worth looking into for you. If it works, it would be a huge amount easier than writing your Pale Moon fork for Android.

[blue_dragon]

By the way, have you ever seen my how-to on installing an ARM version of Pale Moon on an Android tablet using a Linux emulation layer?

sounds cool, will take a look at it

oh wait but my tablet is 32-bit ARM but Pale Moon only has 64bits for Linux so i might have to use https://wmlive.rumbero.org/repo/pool/main/p/palemoon/

[solitude]

You could probably do proper Pale Moon for Android if there was an interest.

I've been interested in making Android apps, I don't know how feasible it is to port UXP to Android however, assuming if we wanted to use Goanna for the engine. Making one based off Webview wouldn't be too hard I imagine, but then where's the likeness in that?

If one were to make UXP work on Android, I presume that would need knowledge, extensive reading, and understanding of the codebase, which is a lot. It could be easier with the help of AI, since from what I've seen it can understand a codebase much faster than a human, thanks to the amount of VRAM it can utilise, and doesn't need breaks like a human.

[Moonchild]

Don't waste your time trying to port UXP to Android. We simply don't have support for it and trying to shoehorn it into the code base would just be a mess and probably destroy the base.
The only real way to do this would be to make a webview based app - and treating it like a convenience app by having sync integrated so it can be used to take the desktop bookmarks, password, etc. to mobile when away from the desktop.

In the meantime, Google is being difficult because Pale Moon has not been registered as a trademark (which is really expensive) and they seem to completely ignore common law trademark exists. So the trademark angle to try and take the unauthorized app down fell flat on its face.

[jobbautista9]

Isn't the Pale Moon logo itself copyrighted? I think a DMCA could still work as they're using the branding asset themselves as icon.

[Moonchild]

Isn't the Pale Moon logo itself copyrighted? I think a DMCA could still work as they're using the branding asset themselves as icon.

It isn't any branding asset exactly. It's similar to the old school logo but it's not the same asset. And since it's a generic concept (a blue coloured photographic moon) it's not that easy to make a case for copyright when it's not exactly the asset. You can't copyright an idea.

[solitude]

Don't waste your time trying to port UXP to Android. We simply don't have support for it and trying to shoehorn it into the code base would just be a mess and probably destroy the base.

Yeah, I've seen you post somewhere that Android would be a mess, and that Java / Kotlin wouldn't work well with the code base or something. It's a bummer though, native PM ported to Android would be so interesting. I wonder how Firefox did it and if we could replicate it.

The only real way to do this would be to make a webview based app - and treating it like a convenience app by having sync integrated so it can be used to take the desktop bookmarks, password, etc. to mobile when away from the desktop.

Seems like a fun thing to try, maybe I'll consider it.

[Moonchild]

Bit the bullet and put in a request for a registered trademark anyway. I hate being forced into this kind of expense to get a voice.

[andyprough]

The only real way to do this would be to make a webview based app - and treating it like a convenience app by having sync integrated so it can be used to take the desktop bookmarks, password, etc. to mobile when away from the desktop.

Could be worthwhile to put out Pale Moon mobile apps that (at least initially) use webview on Android and webkit on Apple, simply to claim the space and be able to snuff out any counterfeits. Also, it could possibly give all of us something to use on mobile other than crappy Firefox or spying chromium apps for browsing. Some Pale Moon ideas could be possibly ported into them like canvas.poisondata, zero telemetry, bookmark and password syncing, maybe some of our good extensions could be ported to mobile for that purpose, etc. Also it would probably be a good way to make more search-generated income for the project as long as DDG was onboard with it. Also, the stats don't lie - the world is going to mobile and ditching desktop in a very big way - there are entire continents where Android has like 70% of the OS marketshare, and in rich Western countries iOS has got very large and growing OS marketshare.

Something to think about.

[solitude]

Also, the stats don't lie - the world is going to mobile and ditching desktop in a very big way - there are entire continents where Android has like 70% of the OS marketshare, and in rich Western countries iOS has got very large and growing OS marketshare.

Something to think about.

Which is why I was thinking about making PM work on Android.

[UCyborg]

i wish i would like to make an unofficial but 'real' Pale Moon fork under New Moon name on the current codebase with Android 4.4 support because i want a modern & reliable browser on old mobile devices which still works just fine, but i have very few app development experience because i normally only use PCs & use phones mostly for calling and messaging only

That'd be interesting, but it's a big codebase and I've had the impression that there's something deterring about it. But yeah, people do all sorts of things for Android. Have you done anything smaller before?? Doesn't have to be something big or from scratch, maybe just modification of some smaller existing application.

I occasionally see people on forums like this mentioning they want to do something on that more advanced scale while never having done anything smaller before. And web browsers in general strike me as being difficult.

Is the old APK still obtainable from official source? I found FTP link, but times out and it doesn't seem to be on the HTTP version either.

I found it at APKPure. The signature looks like it could be unaltered. But I've seen them change APKs in subtle ways in the past.

Well, it only has 32-bit ARM libraries. Another thing I've been wondering, are current 64-bit ARM CPUs still supposed to be able to 32-bit code or not? Or is it an artificial software limitation? If anyone happens to know... I know my phone's prop files don't list any 32-bit ABIs, but what I don't know, is this tweakable setting or reflection of some deeper build config parameter that would prevent 32-bit stuff to run at all. Or maybe the chip not even supporting it.

I do miss QuickPic from the old phone. I mean the version published on XDA with the facelift without questionable alterations of official versions. But again, relies on 32-bit native libraries.

[billmcct]

Personally, on my Galaxy S9+. I use Duck Duck Go Android browser
It has a builtin VPN, I just seem to feel more secure with that.

[athenian200]

Could be worthwhile to put out Pale Moon mobile apps that (at least initially) use webview on Android and webkit on Apple, simply to claim the space and be able to snuff out any counterfeits. Also, it could possibly give all of us something to use on mobile other than crappy Firefox or spying chromium apps for browsing. Some Pale Moon ideas could be possibly ported into them like canvas.poisondata, zero telemetry, bookmark and password syncing, maybe some of our good extensions could be ported to mobile for that purpose, etc. Also it would probably be a good way to make more search-generated income for the project as long as DDG was onboard with it. Also, the stats don't lie - the world is going to mobile and ditching desktop in a very big way - there are entire continents where Android has like 70% of the OS marketshare, and in rich Western countries iOS has got very large and growing OS marketshare.

Something to think about.

Well, if we follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion... we could just call it a day and slap the Pale Moon branding on a Chromium browser. Kinda goes against the original point of the project, but Firefox is 3% of the market at this point... we'd probably make more money and attract more users porting Pale Moon ideas to our own Chromium fork at this point.

It worked out for Microsoft... they were trying to maintain their own Spartan codebase for Edge. Google kept making their life difficult with standards churn. They cautiously tried a Chromium version of Edge for Android only, that was able to sync passwords and bookmarks. It was somewhat successful, and eventually the Windows version was Chromium-based as well, mostly just focused on replacing Google's integrated services with Microsoft's.

It's like, if we make an Android version with a Chromium engine and it's successful, why keep maintaining the desktop version at all? It wouldn't make sense to maintain two codebases... maintaining a Chromium fork for Android is not an insignificant amount of work.

I mean, in a strictly pragmatic sense, you're not wrong to point these things out, but I also kinda thought that wasn't what we were here for.

[andyprough]

I mean, in a strictly pragmatic sense, you're not wrong to point these things out, but I also kinda thought that wasn't what we were here for.

True.

Even so, I've had to use super crappy browsers on mobile for years and years now. What I wouldn't give for even a most basic webview browser that would sync bookmarks and passwords with Pale Moon. And I'm on mobile about half the day for work. Anyway, just random thoughts, doesn't mean anything.

[FranklinDM]

Well, if we follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion... we could just call it a day and slap the Pale Moon branding on a Chromium browser. Kinda goes against the original point of the project, but Firefox is 3% of the market at this point... we'd probably make more money and attract more users porting Pale Moon ideas to our own Chromium fork at this point.

Instead of a webview wrapper, perhaps a Pale Moon Sync app would be better. FTR I've been looking for a more modern Android version of Shaman... Maybe when I do get around to doing it.

[Moonchild]

Instead of a webview wrapper, perhaps a Pale Moon Sync app would be better.

Syncing with what, though? Would an app have access to other installed browsers' data on Android? Aren't Apps strictly separated?

[FranklinDM]

Syncing with what, though? Would an app have access to other installed browsers' data on Android? Aren't Apps strictly separated?

Passwords, bookmarks, and currently opened tabs. It'll be acting more like a password manager in this regard, which is what Shaman already does (albeit just one-way).

[Moonchild]

nono.. not asking what to sync, but asking what it would be syncing WITH...?