I'd like to donate, any chance to use Bitcoins?

[MozillaUser233]

I would like to donate, only option I can donate with is, Bitcoin.

If Palemoon sets up a donation bitcoin wallet, I would like to contribute with what I have. Bitcoin is widely used for donations and merchants.

Info on Bitcoin.

http://bitcoin.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
http://www.weusecoins.com/en/
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

If not, it's ok.

[Moonchild]

I did some reading into how bitcoin works and how it's set up - not sure if I want to support a system with a fixed total fund that is 100% virtual. I have a decent sense of economics and something feels terribly off about the way it's set up.

I'll think about it.

[MozillaUser233]

I just caught this on cspan last night before I fell a sleep. It is a 2 1/2 hour usa hearing. It's very interesting. A lot of interesting questions are asked and answered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSTo9XgOgtY

[Moonchild]

I'll get right on that when I have 2.5 hours to spare
BTW, I'm not questioning the legality of it, just questioning the usability, variable coin value, and risk of it. That and the obvious early adopter bias.

[Moonchild]

Long-term objections aside, my BitCoin address is: 1iYe7SKvne5ixT7mN5EU7vhuaAN8fXK9t
QR code:

[MozillaUser233]

Donation sent. Sent what I had 0.01074152.

Hope you will receive lots more, once people start to take that you have a bitcoin donation addy.

[Moonchild]

Received in good order - confirming it works as intended
Thanks for your support!

I added it to the donations and support page now, will make a FB and Twitter announce of it too.

[MozillaUser233]

Received in good order - confirming it works as intended
Thanks for your support!

I added it to the donations and support page now, will make a FB and Twitter announce of it too.

Fantastic news. You're welcomed.

I have also let known, the bitcoin community as well.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=343610

[Moonchild]

I have also let known, the bitcoin community as well.

Thanks for spreading the word

[Moonchild]

I've been looking around some more re: BitCoins, and although accepting them as donations is nice, I'm running into a bit of a problem that once I have the BitCoins, I don't really know what to do with them. There are no easy ways to spend or exchange them for real currency.

"BTC Exchanges" have rather strict registration policies (photo ID+ proof of residence just to register an account?) and only accept bank transfers/wires, all with inherent risk involved; I don't believe for one second that "illegal chargebacks" are such a problem that it warrants refusing credit cards/paypal - I know for a fact that paypal, when it involves something virtual or a service, doesn't allow chargebacks of any kind.
Makes me suspicious of people on exchanges just taking the bitcoin and not giving you your money, then turning around and selling bitcoin for real money... since it prevents legitimate reversals.

Maybe I'm missing something here - but a virtual number in a digital wallet that I can't spend or convert to other currency that I can spend seems rather pointless...? Can someone explain or provide some pointers as to where/how I can make use of donations in BTC?

[access2godzilla]

"BTC Exchanges" have rather strict registration policies (photo ID+ proof of residence just to register an account?)

The problem is that Liberty Reserve was busted a few months ago; and other virtual currencies do not prefer to be busted in this manner.

By asking everyone for their personal information, they would at least have some information about who the one was making the last exchange, and provide this info if it was required by some legal authority for the investigation of some crime. AFAIK, you can only trace the last transaction, so prosecution is needed to trace earlier transfers.

Also, storing such information would (hopefully) prevent charges of money laudering against the exchanges. If they asked for no info at all, the legal authority would end up punishing the exchanges.

Makes me suspicious of people on exchanges just taking the bitcoin and not giving you your money, then turning around and selling bitcoin for real money... since it prevents legitimate reversals.

The BTC wiki states:

When sending bitcoins to an exchange or other counterparty you are trusting that the counterparty will not abscond with your bitcoins and that the operator maintains secure systems that protect against theft -- internal or external.

So that risk is always involved: an exchange could abscond with your coins, but it hasn't occured yet. To mitigate against that risk, consider using a well-known exchange.

"BTC Exchanges" ... only accept bank transfers/wires, all with inherent risk involved; I don't believe for one second that "illegal chargebacks" are such a problem that it warrants refusing credit cards/paypal - I know for a fact that paypal, when it involves something virtual or a service, doesn't allow chargebacks of any kind.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/u ... ement-full :

9.2 Unlawful Internet Gambling Notice. Restricted transactions as defined in Federal Reserve Regulation GG are prohibited from being processed through your Account or your relationship with PayPal. Restricted transactions generally include, but are not limited to, transactions in which credit, electronic fund transfers, checks, or drafts are knowingly accepted by gambling businesses in connection with unlawful Internet gambling.

The legal status of bitcoin is unclear, and such an exchange would be considered illegal by the above clause, and chargebacks or even closing of accounts can easily occur. Clearly, exchanges do not want to take the involved risk.

Maybe I'm missing something here - but a virtual number in a digital wallet that I can't spend or convert to other currency that I can spend seems rather pointless...? Can someone explain or provide some pointers as to where/how I can make use of donations in BTC?

You can sell BTC for money in the bitcoin exchanges. Some businesses also accept BTC, although most of them are illegitimate (imagine murder contracts, malware or exploit kits).

But that risk of absconding with the BTC, as always, involved.

[Moonchild]

I never trusted Liberty Reserve as an e-money provider from the first time I saw it. I wasn't aware they were busted, but I'm not surprised.

As for exchanges: I looked at the most well-known ones, and they don't provide any information about themselves either, so they ask me to put explicit trust in them, while not giving me a reason to trust them? Sounds fishy. Even the oldest and most renowned MtGox exchange (which I can't use anyway since they want me to pay banking fees to withdraw cash) is not transparent. The European one is run by Russians, which raises red flags as well considering the current state of Russia, financially and criminally.

So far, it seems exchanges are all one-way: You buy BTC, you have to hand over cash in a non-refundable way first (bank transfers with you paying the fees, the notorious Western Union trap, or similar) to buy a "balance" in the exchange's system (no actual BitCoins given unless you "withdraw" the BitCoins, no guarantee the balance is backed by BTC once exchanged in their system). There is no guarantee that an exchange will be made and that you get your BTC. There is no escrow, no pledge, nothing.
If you sell BTC, one again you have to hand over the BTC first (BitCoin transfers are one-way by nature) to add to your "balance" in the exchange system (no guarantee it's actually backed by real money in their system). Same deal again: no escrow, no pledge, nothing.

The wiki states indeed in red lettering that using any sort of exchange is taking a risk. If linking BitCoins to real, usable currency is inherently risky, and BitCoins can't be spent in legitimate businesses apart from useless trinkets, then what is the point?

Another thing I noticed about BitCoin exchanges: The exchange rate of BTC varies wildly, meaning it's a highly speculative currency. I've seen the price of BTC vary from 500 to 900 Euros over a matter of days...
Overall, BitCoins looks like a bubble currency, if it bursts, everyone sitting on BTC will have worthless bits sitting on their harddrive

In addition, there seems to be an inherent flaw in the way BitCoin is operated through mining: the more miners there are, the more difficult it is made to mine and the smaller the rewards for miners. Although it's an attempt to regulate deflation, there is a problem: looking at totals, it's currently at a vastly negative operating total for miners. It's also not clear who decides when returns are diminished.
Seems to me that in the mining department, people selling the mining tools are the ones making heaps of money. By selling faster miners (at high prices mind you) they are pushing their own demand forward.

Paypal: If BitCoin is considered "unlawful internet gambling" then I'll immediately stop accepting them. I trust the judgement of the financial experts at PayPal (and other regulated, legitimate financial institutions like Skrill) in addition to my own objections above to not feed into - or be part - of a virtual "system" that preys on newcomers (as that it what it feels like, and yes I've done some serious investigating so far).

Please let me know if I'm missing something obvious and game-changing here.

Also, how do I refund your BTC to you and other donators if I want to stop? Since I'd rather stop than handing my personal data over to unknown exchange people who may steal my identity in addition to abscond with the BitCoins.

[Moonchild]

As an update, I asked PayPal to let me know their stance on BitCoin, and to my surprise (considering the general buzz about PayPal vs. BitCoin) I got the following reply:

Dear {~~~~~~},

Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding using BitCoin as a currency.

I understand from your email that you want to know where we stand regarding using bitcoin as a currency in our system.

We do not have this as a usable currency at the moment, but I do actually think that we are looking into the possibility to use it.

This is nothing we have stated to use yet but I would recommend you to keep an eye on our website in the future for this service.

Have a continued nice day!

So, according to this, they are considering integrating BitCoin as a currency into their payment system/digital balance. Once that happens, BitCoin will become a lot more accessible to the general public (and I would actually have a use for it since I can exchange it inside PayPal)

At the same time, the following article gives a stern warning about the sustainability and (what I suspected) bubble nature of BitCoin as it stands now: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013 ... -climb-on/

[MozillaUser233]

you, yourself, don't think I left you in the dark here. This never came to my attention ever. Until now. I mined and bought hardware ect. < This also has been pinned downed by the US govt. FINCEN http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidanc ... -G001.html Money transferrers.

The US govt is making it more and more difficult to use bitcoin. I suggested it as, it's a easy donation method vs any other payment method. I have never sold btc>cash, so never thought about it technically. That's my fault.

Maybe by the time you collect all your donations, BTC prices will be in the thousands, and by that time, there will be easy ways to convert btc>you're countries currency = you're basically rich if not already :p.

[Moonchild]

It's an easy way for people to make (anonymous) donations. I don't care what the US Gov't does to make things harder to use BitCoin, the main issue is that I don't necessarily want to support a system that is inherently flawed. I appreciate the donations, of course, even though I currently have no way whatsoever to spend them or convert them. If they become acceptable currency for services I trust and actually use, it would be different. If PayPal will start offering conversion/use of BTC, that would be even better.

For me, currently, BitCoins have no value since I have no practical use for them. It's like getting a foreign currency in cash with no exchange points to use and no way to spend in shops

EDIT: the FinCEN report you linked to only states in so many words that "BitCoin is not considered currency" by the US Government, is therefore not regulated and not registered. Basically saying "You can use and exchange this at your own risk, and any valuation is speculative". It's not illegal to use or anything, just not regulated.

[Moonchild]

Speaking of bubbles, looks like a lot of people lost a lot of money overnight. BTC value crashed overnight from €800 -> €370/BTC. Ouchies.

[Moonchild]

Having gotten more familiar with different types of cryptocurrency, I've added a LiteCoin address as well; seems LiteCoin is a little less vulnerable to market manipulation (by mining equipment sellers) because of the way the hashes are calculated.

LiteCoin donation address: LPRK7FtFKNqrVTHhynHbZw4xJA7QL4w7go

[MozillaUser233]

Having gotten more familiar with different types of cryptocurrency, I've added a LiteCoin address as well; seems LiteCoin is a little less vulnerable to market manipulation (by mining equipment sellers) because of the way the hashes are calculated.

LiteCoin donation address: LPRK7FtFKNqrVTHhynHbZw4xJA7QL4w7go

Cool! Yup, litecoin transfers so much quicker than bitcoin thus why it is called "litecoin" not heavy like bitcoin. Quick n easy. upto an hour for bitcoin transfer, if i recall correctly its like 3-15 min for litecoin transfer.

These are the two most top cryptocurrency's of all cryptocurrency's then there is ripple but ripple I would not trust, it is not decentralized, it is ran by a group.

These are the only two coins I would use "lite and bit coin, no others like example BBQcoin, ripple ect ect ect.

[Moonchild]

I've actually added a third (DOGE) since it seems to be up there in popularity (DOGE, although I'm not sure about the volatility of it), and a fourth (Foxcoin FOX) which is very new but that safeguards against multipooling, dumping and rapid inflation (not to mention avoiding the brick-wall mining 'difficulty doubling' hurdles other coins have) so it's a more sane alternative... a bit like the Pale Moon of Cryptocurrency .

I'm open to consider new ones, and if you want to donate by mining some of them for me, that'd be nice as well. Scrypt currencies like ltc, doge and fox don't need specialized hardware, you can mine them with a powerful enough graphics card.

[MozillaUser233]

Think you might have another hobby :p