adisib wrote:But since when is Pale Moon a private party, rather than something that is trying to make the internet a better experience for everyone? The easiest way to not be a freeloader is to stop using Pale Moon. If you call someone a freeloader, they are going to say "Ok, I will go over to this other browser that is actually a welcoming and helpful community that wants me, so that I can enjoy using the internet."
Which is exactly what I did today as soon as MoonChild backed twotankadmin up today. I exported my bookmarks from Pale Moon, imported my bookmarks to Vivaldi, made Vivaldi my default Windows browser, and replaced Pale Moon with Vivaldi on my launcher bar.
I am not sure if it's a permanent switch or not, I left Pale Moon installed, but I actually did get rid of temporary bookmarks and cookies and later as I browsed wound up adding new bookmarks to Vivaldi tht I didn't copy over to Pale Moon.
I've used this browser for years (Look at my comment history- I'd guess four or five years now?). I've been supportive and reported bugs and helped newer users than myself. I've offered opinions and advice about the direction of the browser. I've recommended to my friends. I've written several websites email asking them to support the browser by proffering compatible web pages, including a long support ticket I went back and forth on with a bank about. I've defended Pale Moon and MoonChild specifically on Ghacks (Same screen name) and Slashdot (Anomously). On Slashdot, I basically have mentioned Pale Moon whenever I read someone complaining about the direction of Firefox. And of course my user-agent string helped Pale Moon's marketshare.
I also willingly put up with incompatibilies that actually forced me to have special dedicated one use browsers for sites PM didn't work on because I liked it so much.
However, Twotankadmin and his ilk seem to be operating on the assumption that users *need* Pale Moon. People like Pale Moon, they don't need it. Its not air, I won't die without it. Its not crack, I'm not addicted to it. Heck, I can even browse the web without it. And the other choices are not even all really horrible like the old days where if you didn't like Firefox, you were stuck with Internet Explorer- actually several are pretty decent.
I do have an attachment to Pale Moon and like what they do, otherwise I wouldn't have been using it for so many years. I wouldn't have been that active in the community and doing the things surrounding it that I mentioned earlier in this post. But I have enough choices that I don't have to use it if a troll is going to blast me constantly and then the browser owner is going to defend his terminology.
Now, to be clear, 95% of what MoonChild has said in this thread has been entirely reasonable. Twotankadmin lost his mind, though, and while I can appreciate that MC gives people a bit of room for free speech and to be a jerk if they want to, he should realize that actually *defending* the guy and his terminology there was not a very good PR move. Let him flame us, sure, I can live with that. But when MC actually defends it rather than just saying "Free speech, he has the right to say it", he's associating the browser itself with the comments.
Pale Moon's devs have a reputation for prickliness and not working well with others. Over the years, after initially being kind of taken aback, I learned to appreciate that they were around all the time and answered questions and engaged and thought "Well, you know, if the top guys at the major browsers communicated this much with the public, they'd probably say some rude things too, occasionally. The coolness of being able to really talk with and discuss things with the lead people on a regular basis was more than worth the occasional bluntness or whatever.
It still probably is. I am not necessarily giving up Pale Moon forever, or even for the rest of the weekend, necessarily. But I was really disappointed in the way this has gone.
I realize my non-monetary contributions I outlined above are clearly not as good as the guy who is flaming people like me who may have contributed $1 US once, but it probably pays for the server space I use to download a copy of the browser occasionally.
I bring in what in the US is considered a less than poverty level income. I'm not spending money on a web browser. One of the reasons I used Pale Moon was the ad-blocker, so I'm not going to stop using the ad-blocker either. I am typing this from Firefox for Android right now, which I switched to from Chrome entirely because Firefox let me install an ad-blocker and Chrome didn't. That was it. Maybe I've come to appreciate other things about FFA since I switched to it, but I had one reason at the time I switched.
Anyway, I get the MoonChild's gotta eat argument, but I'm not sure he actually makes less than me, and I've got to eat, too.
I'm under a ton of stress right now and maybe I'm overreacting, but the basic point seems valid. Don't offer people something for free and then call them names because they said "Thank you", tried to help in whatever small way they could, but didn't give you money or view your ads. If you want to charge, charge. That's fine. I can stick with Vivaldi forever if that's the case (Or pick from other available browsers, I'm not in love with Vivaldi, it was just my backup Netflix and other stuff that doesn't work with PM dedicated browser as of earlier, so it was easiest to switch to on a dime).
I'm also not sure I need browser angst to add to some serious real life stuff that is raising my blood pressure so much I am on 3 BP meds now. What browser I use and hanging out and talking about it should be fun, not more stress. People do not need extra stress. And this is not the way to grow your browser or win people over to base their applications on the new platform code you're working on.
I am trying to still be constructive here because I do actually still like these guys and this browser. I'm just not very happy right now.