Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

About this bulletin board and the Pale Moon website

Moderators: FranklinDM, Lootyhoof

Would you donate to make and keep *.palemoon.org completely ad-free?

Poll ended at 2017-05-12, 17:53

Yes, I would, and I am able to (and willing to do so in the future).
22
43%
Yes, I would, but I don't have the money to spare. I don't want ads, though.
6
12%
Yes, I would, don't have the money, so will disable my ad blocker instead.
15
29%
No, I would not, and prefer to keep ad-supporting. I will disable my ad blocker.
7
14%
No, I would not, and I don't want ads either. (Boo!)
1
2%
 
Total votes: 51

Lunix

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by Lunix » 2017-05-17, 19:16

$7500 sounds very low to me. The bandwidth for Pale Moon downloads alone must be very expensive along with extensions and themes. If we want Moonchild to be able to work on the browser full time then he needs respectable income for himself too.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2017-05-18, 06:12

That is because it is very low.. According to my own calculations given my (me mine Tobin) specific circumstances and living in a small studio apartment on basically a starvation diet (not that I am complaining.. I could lose some weight ;)) in Indiana in the United States (which is admittedly overall much lower than living in Sweden or most other places in the world) that $7,500 would almost maybe cover costs for 3 months. Now I don't have the C/C++ skills to suddenly become Moonchild 2.0 so that would automatically add more money for someone who does have that background. So yeah.. I could keep everything and my self going for almost 3 months as-is without one of the most important core skills to get the job done for $7,500 dollars.. But that is only keeping the lights on in stagnation for that time period.

You do see what I am saying, right?

User avatar
mr tribute
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 332
Joined: 2016-03-19, 23:24

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by mr tribute » 2017-05-18, 08:37

Look at the poll. 22 people are willing to donate to Pale Moon... From that perspective $7500 is a huge amount of money.

$7500 is not enough to sustain Pale Moon development. I never said it would be. I was always referring to what is realistic to expect from the community.

PhilK

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by PhilK » 2017-05-18, 11:06

Nothing wrong with asking for donations or trying to generate revenue to support the project. Software development projects do not generally keep the lights on via goodwill alone.

As a result of this news about declining revenue and valid need I will probably make a moderate donation to PM soon. I do not personally support ad-based revenue at all because I more or less despise ads in general, including all the security, snooping/privacy, performance degradation and pollution of content problems that modern advertising networks entail. (And making text-wall posts over and over attempting to dismiss these valid concerns will neither convince me otherwise nor reflect well on the poster.)

That said:
  • Trying to "guilt" people into doing anything sucks, no matter how it's done.
  • Promoting terms like "freeloader" is obnoxious IMHO, and taints the project's public image. Words matter. I don't care if someone who thinks like a robot believes they can look at that word as a simple descriptor - that's not the way language works. It's laden with emotional baggage which is plainly inflammatory and derogatory, and that's the problem.
  • The implied character attacks here are also obnoxious. Yes, many people today have a very entitled attitude about getting stuff like software and "content" for nothing. But running around trying to shame them while simultaneously attempting to gain their respect and support for your software project is dumb and counter-productive. If there is one thing I learned in business (and that includes over 10 years in retail as well as over 25 years of self-employment in the technology field), it is that you cannot generally "force" or "shame" cheapskates to stop being cheapskates if that's what they are inclined to be. (And even that is a crappy term. Remember: about 60% of the human population on this earth lives on less than $3.00 USD per day. Lots of people really are not in a position to be paying $10/20/30/month for a web browser whether they'd like to or not.)
I agree with the general tone of what CharmCityCrab has posted ITT. To reiterate: as long as Pale Moon keeps it classy I will continue to respect the project, use the product and donate. But let's not jump the shark, please.
Last edited by PhilK on 2017-05-18, 11:18, edited 1 time in total.

PhilK

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by PhilK » 2017-05-18, 11:09

mr tribute wrote:Look at the poll. 22 people are willing to donate to Pale Moon... From that perspective $7500 is a huge amount of money.

That was a very ad-hoc, unscientific poll of a very small segment of the user population (about 0.005%, to be precise), which (AFAIK) only ran for a few days in a particular section of this web forum. You really cannot extrapolate actual total revenue potential from it. About the only thing it is vaguely useful for is getting an extremely general estimate of what proportion of a particular segment of Pale Moon forum users might be willing to contribute towards the Pale Moon project.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35473
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-05-18, 11:52

mr tribute.

My signature has nothing to do with this thread. it has everything to do with generics in software design and is a humorous note.

Financial reports? Please read my previous statement about Pale Moon and the project's financial situation being very much my personal financial situation, regardless of how professional this is set up and being run. No financial reports will be made available.
In the same vein you wanting to see a "progess bar" requires a goal amount. A goal amount is directly dependent on having a fixed budget. A fixed budget requires pre-planning things that, in the project's current state, are not possible to pre-plan. If I make a "worst case" goal estimate, I'm sure quite a few people would choke on their morning coffee, and I predict we'll never see that goal ever being approached or met.

So, even though you'd love to see a set process here comparing it to how some other FOSS projects handle these things, it's not possible. Pale Moon will not be easily labeled, classified or categorized, nor will it fit any pre-set business model, because the situation of this project and its organization is (due to many varying factors and international ties) very much unique.

No matter how often people are going to ask for such a disclosure of finances or business processes, I will not oblige. If you don't like that, then I'm sorry to disappoint. You can determine from that point forward whether you want to keep endorsing and supporting Pale Moon or not. Draw your own conclusions. :coffee:
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35473
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-05-18, 12:08

PhilK, please don't bring up the whole semantics discussion again, we were finally over that.
If you don't like the term "freeloader" look up the definition on WordNik, and see, from an objective standpoint, if it applies to people who actively block income for us.

Once again, draw your own conclusions. :coffee:
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2017-05-18, 12:16

What I believe is that unless there is a huge majority realignment in the desires and thoughts of the masses there is no point to adding the extra overhead of a legal entity and setting up an organization that would separate any of our personal situations from the Project. Without that realignment there would never be enough resources to do that anyway.. So the best thing to do is continue on for as long as all of us possibly can.

Providing the choice where no one else will may very well spark that realignment and a wake up call to a broader slice of the masses which then could justify such a grand plan. However, right now and with how things are working, Moonchild makes perfect sense.

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 777
Joined: 2014-07-23, 13:56
Location: New York

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by TwoTankAmin » 2017-05-18, 16:26

Remember: about 60% of the human population on this earth lives on less than $3.00 USD per day.
And every one of them owns a device that connects to the net and requires the use of a browser. Are you kidding with this statement??????
Lots of people really are not in a position to be paying $10/20/30/month for a web browser whether they'd like to or not.)
Nobody anywhere is this thread ever suggested anything even remotely like this. The largest figure I saw anybody suggest was $10/year. Better to be a robot than unable to think rationally.
Promoting terms like "freeloader" is obnoxious IMHO, and taints the project's public image. Words matter. I
WRONG
“There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions, and wooooords.”
George Carlin

As to who may or may not be feeling guilty, "If the shoe fits, wear it."
“No one has ever become poor by giving.” Anonymous
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”" Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." Neil DeGrasse Tyson

User avatar
rabnbeinn
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 350
Joined: 2011-11-18, 20:38
Location: Scotland

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by rabnbeinn » 2017-05-18, 17:33

As I have said before either donate or don't, turn off adblocker or don't, contribute in the forum or don't. You will not be treated any different either which way you choose. IT'S A CHOICE! Yet so many choose to question Moonchilds request.

Either do or don't. It really is as simple as that.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35473
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Website and services sustainability. Would you donate?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-05-18, 18:03

And with that, my friends, i think this topic can be considered closed.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Locked