I guess it's time to go!

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Thehandyman1957

I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2019-05-26, 18:00

This is a sad day. :cry: It has been 4 years and 8 days since I came to the Pale Moon forum.

Moderator note: "parting rant" hidden. Take with a few grains of salt.
And in that time I have watched it go from a fun and learning place, to a closed down,
batten down the hatches place where those I knew, either left or got banned. Sometimes for the
dumbest and personal reasons. I have seen topics that in the beginning were welcome,
to seeing even the remotest off topics be closed or shot down. To be honest, I haven't learned
anything from any topic here for quite awhile and that in it's self could be over looked, because
people talked and there was always something someone would bring up that allowed for a
discussion. But even that is gone now and the place feels empty and dark.

The attitudes of some folks here have become exactly like some of the Linux forums
I dealt with years past. I.E. if you don't have some sort of working knowledge of how
things in the code world work then your sub par at best.

Sadly this forum now gives off a very unwelcome feel and it no longer is a place for
simple folks to even come and say hello. And I know that I'm not the only one to feel
this here. This is why I picked the avatar I have been using for the last week or so.
This is how the forum feels anymore.

Truly I'm only talking about the forum, and not the Project it's self. Pale Moon as a project
is truly the best there is and I will continue to use it as my main browser for as long as it exists.
And even continue to support it financially when I can.
I will miss (already miss) the forum I once knew, but there is nothing left for me here.

Normally I would not say anything and simply leave. But this needs to be said, not in a rant or
angry way. But in a "I hope you see what is, and has been taking place" kinda way.

Perhaps you don't want that kind of forum here. It's your right and that's ok. But personally
when you run a forum like it is being run now, it will bleed off on how folks see the project it's self.

I have been thinking about this for some time, and I was going to just let it go. But the closing of
the "Theme song thread" was the last straw. This was the only thread left where folks here could
in any way get to know others here on the forum even in a non direct way.
It was way more than about the music. It seems to me that those things are not important
here anymore, and all you want a sterilized and cold format. Well sadly, that's now what you have. :sick:
Again, I want to say thank you for the great and truly last free and open browser left.
Thank you team, and others for all that you have given to us simple folk out here.
May the sun always shine on you and the wind be on your back. :angel:

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Sajadi » 2019-05-26, 18:12

Yeah, the closing of this thread was sad, even if i as i believe - never posted there.

What the board really misses is a true off-topic segment with no restrictions - topic wise, as long as they are constructive and interesting. Also, sad to see you go, wish you best luck!

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-05-26, 19:54

So, not only do you overreact to a simple decision about one thread that was grey area to begin with (as even the OP doubted it when posting, and has simply been allowed to continue for a good while, and even has had me post in it myself), but you want to reflect that on the entire forum, AND not respect that we have asked not to write "parting rants" that serve no purpose but to try and leave a "hot coal" so to say on the doorstep on your way out...
Your 4 years and 8 days have obviously done nothing to appreciate the forum for what it is, instead of what you personally want it to be.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne
"I'm afraid you have me mistaken for someone who can be shamed by a child." -- Quillspawn

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-05-26, 19:56

Sajadi wrote:
2019-05-26, 18:12
What the board really misses is a true off-topic segment with no restrictions - topic wise, as long as they are constructive and interesting.
I guess I can make a board like that, if that is what people want. I'll be wholly ignoring it in that case.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne
"I'm afraid you have me mistaken for someone who can be shamed by a child." -- Quillspawn

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by adesh » 2019-05-26, 20:01

Thehandyman1957,
It came as a surprise to me that you are leaving as I feel you are a person with perseverance. Yes, we never talked but you are one of those people on forum, who talk sense and I could always agree.

I seldom looked at theme song thread, but somehow felt good that people like to talk about their taste and such here on the forum. Even Moonchild used to post in that thread. Sad, it's closed.

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Sajadi » 2019-05-26, 20:16

I suggest vote if you want an off-topic board here...

viewtopic.php?f=17&p=167727#p167727

That way such threads like "what are you watching/reading/listening/eating right now" could exit without issue.. if they are not against common normal human moral rules ;)

Also, it is up to us to change the mood - if someone feels something is going in a wrong direction, then why not trying to actively try to put it in a better direction again, that is something what everyone of us can do on their own :)

So, let's not start another drama here and try to find a way to get along together again in a way which is for everyone acceptable (which should include to avoid hitting first, defending second and so on - as this only leads to losing instead of winning) :ugeek:

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by satrow » 2019-05-26, 21:15

Sajadi wrote:
2019-05-26, 20:16
I suggest vote if you want an off-topic board here...

viewtopic.php?f=17&p=167727#p167727
Or you can vote against it :)

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by yereverluvinuncleber » 2019-05-26, 22:19

I don't think that was a rant. He was being civil and polite.

I have ranted in the past (not here) but by comparison we already have an in-built ranter who gets away with a lot worse than that of our OP. We have grown to love Tobin, our gruff guard-dog and if there is room for him then there is room for off-topic discussion, friendly or otherwise. It might well be a good place for Moonchild to avoid entirely, I suggest he does avoid it altogether, he spends too much time on this forum in any case, answering questions shows community involvement but he has a browser to build and his time is short...
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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Sajadi » 2019-05-26, 22:32

yereverluvinuncleber wrote:
2019-05-26, 22:19
then there is room for off-topic discussion, friendly or otherwise.
That is the point. This is what almost every board does have, you just have to put some basic rules into the air which are common sense.. for example.. no racism, no personal attacks - but that should be anyway standard in any board rules, no matter if off-topic or not.

People always love to talk about funny and random things sometimes, if there is no place for them to do so, every topic gets disturbed sooner or later, as there is always something which is sooner or later off-topic. And constantly reminding people not to disturb threads.. this is then going to be highly annoying if mods or owners are then forced to remind people every single time when it is going to happen ;)

Thehandyman1957

Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2019-05-26, 23:12

Moonchild wrote:
2019-05-26, 19:54
So, not only do you overreact to a simple decision about one thread that was grey area to begin with (as even the OP doubted it when posting, and has simply been allowed to continue for a good while, and even has had me post in it myself), but you want to reflect that on the entire forum, AND not respect that we have asked not to write "parting rants" that serve no purpose but to try and leave a "hot coal" so to say on the doorstep on your way out...
Your 4 years and 8 days have obviously done nothing to appreciate the forum for what it is, instead of what you personally want it to be.
This decision was not simply based on one closing of a topic and I made that pretty clear. It also was
not a rant. I just wanted to make aware things I have seen and the direction I have noticed on the forum for many years. A rant would have been something on the likes of " I hate this freaking forum and I'm leaving, kiss my ars" or such. My post was meant to be informative of the feelings I have towards the direction of the forum in the hopes it would create some thought and perhaps lead to change to which it seems to be doing. This was not a "hot coal" post. And I have greatly appreciated
the forum for what it is and was as I made very clear. You seem to have taken great offense at me bringing up this observation even though I'm not the only one feeling this way.

The fact that your willing to even consider a "off topic" area was a huge surprise to me and I
think would greatly add to the forum in a whole and I did not make this post to try to gain
some sort of advantage in any way.

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by yereverluvinuncleber » 2019-05-27, 09:38

- and you should make handyman the moderator on that topic and he can patrol it for trolls...
My skills technical and otherwise: VMS system manager 20 years. Fault Tolerance, clustering, Vax, Alpha and ftSparc. DCL, Javascript, VB6, PHP programming. Graphic Design, Technical Project Management, CMS Web Design. DOS and Windows admin since inception. Quad Audio Electronics update and repair. Rebuilding classic cars and motorcycles. Artist in watercolours. Historian. There's more.

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by F22 Simpilot » 2019-05-27, 12:20

I just use the forum mostly for support, and try to bite my damn lip on all the other stupid utter crap and hypocrisy. So yeah, I can see the OP's point. Believe me. In more than one way. And it was well worded. Especially on how the moderation of the board reflects upon that software its self. Someone can quote me and say stupid crap as well, I don't care. :coffee:

PS. God help you if you want to compile PM yourself. :lol:

PPS. Do you honestly want to know how many middle fingers I gave my monitor at one user here?? :lol: :D The avatar is nice, but it should be a bullseye.
If you're that smart and act like a dork, then you're not that smart after all. :geek:

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-27, 12:29

To whom are you referring?
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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Giraffe » 2019-05-28, 07:56

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2019-05-27, 12:29
To whom are you referring?
Don't ask, don't tell. ;)
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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-05-28, 09:39

Thehandyman1957 wrote:
2019-05-26, 23:12
A rant would have been something on the likes of " I hate this freaking forum and I'm leaving, kiss my ars" or such. My post was meant to be informative of the feelings I have towards the direction of the forum in the hopes it would create some thought and perhaps lead to change to which it seems to be doing.
While the wording might be more elaborate, the general attitude in the post was still very much "I hate this freaking forum and I'm leaving, kiss my arse". It's therefore still a rant, which generally is a post full of (often exaggerated through one-sided views) negatives that someone spills after bottling things up for a while.
Any such parting posts/topics created always have that same gist to it, no matter how eloquent things are put or wrapped in supposed "positive criticism" because if you're not going to be around to see the results of that criticism, then what is the point? You don't say a thing, then give feedback but on your way out...?

If things would be discussed NOT in that circumstance but as a normal discussion point to improve, it would be a different matter altogether, but that's not how this was done, and no matter how much you try to talk it down, the facts remain the facts; see above. You can discuss these things, it's why I created the forum and website board (which was opted not to be used, but the general discussion board instead). If you post such things in general discussion, it's yet another indication you're posting to stir things up on the way out instead of trying to improve what's there.

Look at how I responded to this matter: I was flexible and put it to a vote, to see what the very people who are using this forum to interact want... What more do you expect from me whose main job is NOT moderating a forum/herding users into peaceful pastures?
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne
"I'm afraid you have me mistaken for someone who can be shamed by a child." -- Quillspawn

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Dustie_Rose » 2019-05-28, 13:25

My opinion and appreciation letter to Palemoon team:

Why so many have always write in such great detail about things they do not like, or want to change, or feel like it is acceptable to express their opinion about things that do not matter to most enough to take that much time to make it known. Or to what purpose it is supposed to attain or as if anyone's opinion is more valuable because they took their time to complain?
I like the forums on Palemoon, I especially appreciate the restrictions to follow simple rules to maintain order, civility, clarity and structure. I love how easy it is to find help on any given topic I need information on, it takes less time to find because they are maintained by restrictions and guidelines-great job on the website!
I read many articles for information on many websites. What I do not like is weeding through so many worthless, degrading, negatiive, and ignorant complaints that are a waste of time and accomplish nothing so I do not see any point in doing that.
This forum is the most informative on almost any issue I have ever needed help with, and I read enough to find solutions to any issues I have had, before asking for help which I never needed. This is easy with the structured topics that are informative, accurate and always work for me. I value the knowledge offered for free from the most qualified experts that work on this project which indeed takes more work and time than most will ever know. I can get more educated for free here than any class taken at college. Professional advice is hard to find for this price without strings attached, or a price tag.
THANKS TO ALL YOU GUYS FOR PRESENTING SUCH PROFESSIONAL FORUMS THAT ARE EASY TO FOLLOW, AND CONTAIN A LOT OF VALUABLE INFORMATION FOR FREE.
Dustie_Rose

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by fillerup » 2019-05-28, 21:01

i don't judge HandyMan for airing his feelings. if any regular user has earned that right, he would be the first name that comes to my mind. i can kind of see MC's point of view as well, but attributing the intention of 'stirring shit' over a mere forum post to someone who, over the years, has contributed as much as a non-dev can possibly do, is quite disingenuous to me and far from a fair take on the situation.

as for the improvement points, i think they can be inferred quite easily from the first few paragraphs in the 'rant' section. i think the conversation could've been shifted towards that topic of discussion, if MC didn't react to the thread the way he did. i do very much applaud the idea of creating an off-topic area based on a forum poll though, that kind of community-oriented decision making has always been what Pale Moon is best at, even if HandyMan is correct (imo) on a few areas of his criticism

Thehandyman1957

Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2019-05-28, 22:34

Moonchild wrote:
2019-05-28, 09:39
While the wording might be more elaborate, the general attitude in the post was still very much "I hate this freaking forum and I'm leaving, kiss my arse". It's therefore still a rant, which generally is a post full of (often exaggerated through one-sided views) negatives that someone spills after bottling things up for a while.
While upon further reflection, I can see my error in not waiting and probably making
a topic about these issues, but this is not my first time talking about it here at the forum, and the
last time I brought it up I got crickets. So I really did not think it would make any type of difference.

But I disagree about the "rant". It was not put out in that fashion or feel.
Webster defines "Rant" as this.
Definition of rant

(Entry 1 of 2)

intransitive verb
1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
2 : to scold vehemently

transitive verb
: to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion
My post was not noisy, excited or bombastic. But I guess I could agree that it was in some way
declamatory as it's definition is this.
declamation
Also found in: Thesaurus, Legal, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
dec·la·ma·tion (dĕk′lə-mā′shən)
n.
1. A recitation delivered as an exercise in rhetoric or elocution.
2.
a. Vehement oratory.
b. A speech marked by strong feeling; a tirade.
My post had strong feeling but it was not posted in a tirade.
But I digress, this is simply splitting hairs.
Any such parting posts/topics created always have that same gist to it, no matter how eloquent things are put or wrapped in supposed "positive criticism" because if you're not going to be around to see the results of that criticism, then what is the point? You don't say a thing, then give feedback but on your way out...?
I agree and sadly, looking back, I would have done this a bit different and I'm sorry
that it came across the way it did. My intention was to wait a couple of days and simply
see what kind of response it would get in the hopes that perhaps there could be talk about
it and maybe even a way to help things, and perhaps, change my mind.
If things would be discussed NOT in that circumstance but as a normal discussion point to improve, it would be a different matter altogether, but that's not how this was done, and no matter how much you try to talk it down, the facts remain the facts; see above. You can discuss these things, it's why I created the forum and website board (which was opted not to be used, but the general discussion board instead). If you post such things in general discussion, it's yet another indication you're posting to stir things up on the way out instead of trying to improve what's there.
I will agree with this but it was not my intention to stir things up and I did know where else you
would put such a topic.[/quote]
Look at how I responded to this matter: I was flexible and put it to a vote, to see what the very people who are using this forum to interact want... What more do you expect from me whose main job is NOT moderating a forum/herding users into peaceful pastures?
Your response was exemplary. I thank you for going out of your way to try to make
a change here at the forums. I would like to say though, that your frustration with me
could be tempered with a small amount of understanding that not all of us may have
the skills you have in dealing with a situation. I agree that this should have been
done in a different way, I would ask that you balance my time here and my behavior
as a member as the normal, and not the above type of post. I will be more thoughtful
in the future if I decide to stay.

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Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-05-29, 09:39

I will not let this become some patronizing lesson about how I am wrong no matter what I say or how I word it. And most certainly do NOT lecture me with dictionary definitions that do not cover all uses of words in common speech.
Keep pushing with this nonsense and I'll reconsider my response, and take a much harsher course.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne
"I'm afraid you have me mistaken for someone who can be shamed by a child." -- Quillspawn

Thehandyman1957

Re: I guess it's time to go!

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2019-05-29, 16:09

Moonchild wrote:
2019-05-29, 09:39
I will not let this become some patronizing lesson about how I am wrong no matter what I say or how I word it. And most certainly do NOT lecture me with dictionary definitions that do not cover all uses of words in common speech.
Keep pushing with this nonsense and I'll reconsider my response, and take a much harsher course.
I guess that's it. I have tried to be diplomatic in every way I can and you have
chosen to be an ass hole in almost every instant. :wtf: I am done with this place.
Have fun, when no one else wants to be here anymore. My sig says it all.

Please delete my account. :evil:

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