Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

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SvenG

Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by SvenG » 2014-06-05, 12:22

First of all, apologies if this was already requested. Looked at the first couple of pages and also did a search and didn't find anything like this in this section.

My suggestion/request is a fully functional keyboard shortcut editor that allows you to change or remove all (or at least most) keyboard shortcuts in Pale Moon and maybe even add new ones.

Why do I think it is important?
People have a different browsing behavior and use different functions. So existing shortcuts are of more or less use depending on how you use your browser, what is handy for some is useless and maybe even confusing or in worst case breaking functionality for others. Let me give a few examples (some of these are taken from requests I found on Addons Mozilla).

Look at the F keys, personally, I use three of them (F4, F5 and sometimes F11) that is comparably lousy cause there are 12 of them. Now take F7, F7 is mapped to Caret Browsing, since I accidentally hit F7 a few days ago (still on Firefox) I didn't even know about Caret Browsing and after trying it I found out that I will never ever use that. So for me it is a wasted shortcut. Anyway, F7 is a great shortcut cause it simple and easy to remember, it doesn't even have a modifier key, so mapping it to an unused function is really a loss. For others Caret Browsing might be cool and F7 of value. Didn't also know what F6, F8, F9 and so on do, looked it up here
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ke ... ks-quickly
some do nothing.

On the other hand there is the Statusbar that has the shortcut CTRL+/ to pop in and out that is not too bad as long as you have a keyboard that has a / key. On my netbook for example the shortcut is CTRL+SHIFT+7 that is pretty complex (= hard to reach all keys with one hand) for the shortcut of such a for me important function, sure you get used to it but it is not as simple as it could be, right? The elegant way would be to map it to F7 which is in my case unused. Others won't even need a shortcut to pop the Statusbar in and out.

Another example is the Quick Find function that is mapped to / (SHIFT+7 for me), pretty essential functions for some, it could also be mapped to the in my case still available 8 F keys. On the other hand / wont and should not work in text boxes (for obvious reasons) while an F key could work in a text box without causing any problems (and yes, the Quick Find works in a text box too, you just can't enable it with that shortcut, you still can use CTRL+F for the full Find function which does basically the same). There are more such conflicts, CTRL+B that is for the Bookmarks Sidebar but also for bold text in many text boxes and they conflict in some cases, same with CTRL+I that pops up Page info and is used for italic text.

Then other functions have multiple shortcuts that is cool cause you can use the one you like the most but also that might not be ideal. Closing a tab is on CTRL+F4 and CTRL+W (and there are still other possibilities like the close tab button or with some plugins a double click on the tab). How many of these does one person use? I would say at most two, usually one uses less cause in general you always do the same. On the other hand CTRL+W is on the keyboard just one key away from SHIFT+W which is just a capital w in a text box so by accidentally hitting SHIFT instead of CTRL I might for example loose this post cause this website doesn't have an autosave function. So simply disabling CTRL+W would be of value for some in particular for those who do not use it at all to close tabs.

Are there any addons that do the job?
Well yes, in a way but none of them is ideal (most of them are in fact far from ideal). There is, for example, Customizable Shortcuts
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... shortcuts/
which is sorta recommended by Mozilla (earlier versions work installs with PM) that is nice but covers only some shortcuts and does not allow to disable shortcuts (well, you can map it to something completely bogus instead). Also I didn't really manage that addon version to do anything useful at all, latest version installs when using Nightly Tester Tool and works. So far I am not aware of any addons that let you entirely disable more than one or maybe very few specific shortcuts. You can also use addons to disable some unused functions like the Caret Browsing but still the shortcut is lost.

Why do I think it should be part of the browser core?
This is just wild guessing cause I have no idea, maybe it could be done with an addon like PM Commander as well. I think adding it as a core feature would be the best way to avoid conflicts. The more addons you add and the more shortcuts they add or modify the more complex things get.

Also I think that many people would use it if they had it (and know about it). Many people just don't know something like this is possible and thus don't even think about it but I think if you give them the possibility to do that they will use, maybe just one shortcut they wholeheartedly hate, maybe 10, maybe all. I read requests where people asked about disabling all keyboard shortcuts (one guy was physically handicapped and afraid that he would accidentally hit the wrong shortcuts while typing). I believe that shortcuts should be where they fit into the users workflow and not where developers think they should be just like menus (has a pretty good addon) and toolbar icons (already supported by Pale Moon).

I remember Opera (when I used it for a while some years ago) did it pretty well, also XnViewMP does it really well and I find myself pretty often looking for that in programs knowing that it exists in others and when it is there I use it but maybe I am not an average user, don't know.

----

I know or can at least imagine that this wont be a small/simple task and I wont expect it to happen within the near future. Don't even know if it is possible at all. Anyway, it is something that I would have expected Mozilla would have done with Firefox cause it increases compatibility with different keyboard layouts, increases usability and adds functionality and possibilities for people instead of removing them (what they did with the new interface).

Sorry for this rather long text (I actually hate long posts), hope it is not too confusing and I got my point clear (not native English speaker). Thanks for your attention and maybe you might consider it at least at some point in the future. I will surely survive a second decade without it.

damamm

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by damamm » 2014-06-17, 16:12

I like this. Had trouble trying to change shortcuts myself, and eventually gave up since no addon could do it (some pretty basic stuff like switching tabs).

Supernova

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Supernova » 2014-07-13, 13:00

Bumping that thread. I do think this would be a really really nice feature.

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Night Wing » 2014-07-13, 13:39

I'm going to play "devil's advocate".

Since I'm a non technical user, I don't think these features should be incorporated into the core of a browser. Why? I think these features are more akin to an operating system and shouldn't be in a browser.

In other words, how much work is involved for a one man operation, which Pale Moon basically is, to keep these features working properly when a browser based on Firefox is constantly being changed code wise every 6 weeks?

Some of you assume incorporating these features into the core of the browser is "easy" when it might not be and if it is easy, maintaining them might not be.

Lastly, some of you are power users and love features like these. Speaking as a non technical user who isn't a power user, I would never use these features.
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New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2014-07-14, 00:39

IMO, this kind of radical modification of Pale Moon should be left to the domain of addons. That is what they are there for to change and extend the functionality of the core program.
Off-topic:
Short, simple, easy, YEAH!

Supernova

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Supernova » 2014-07-14, 00:40

Well, I may be biased from playing a good bunch of games, but playing these, the controls configurability always allowed me to use what is useful for me, instead of the default that is not bad but just not what I prefer. Browser is not a game, but I use that 20x more ; and I do use a good bunch of shortcuts. The ability to adapt these to your workflow improve significantly your efficiency. Sometimes also, a shortcut I allowed by mistake do something I don't wanted ; I would happily disable such a shortcut I don't use otherwise.

Admittedly, I'm not a Firefox/Pale Moon expert ; but seeing how much less complicated pieces of software manage to let the user change shortcuts, it is not out of range to hope it about a web browser.
The part I'm not sure about is how to do with extensions adding their shortcuts : would this add complexity ?

Anyway, the potential difficulty to do an idea shouldn't be the criteria to suggest it or not (unless it's really really difficult) - it is however a valid criteria to implement it or not.

damamm

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by damamm » 2014-07-14, 06:55

This would without a doubt be one great feature/option. And while some suggested it could be difficult to implement, it might as well be very easy.
Could Moonchild or someone familiar with the code comment on this, please?

dark_moon

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by dark_moon » 2014-07-14, 09:09

Don't make the browser into a software what firefox is: bloatware.

The mozilla browser have a great feature: addons.
So search for a addon which have this feature or write your own.

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-07-14, 09:19

damamm wrote:This would without a doubt be one great feature/option. And while some suggested it could be difficult to implement, it might as well be very easy.
Could Moonchild or someone familiar with the code comment on this, please?
It's difficult to implement in the actual core. It would require writing a key editor, parameterizing all hotkeys, taking l10n with different hotkeys into account (determined through language packs), extensive key conflict checking, extensive checking for inaccessible features if keys are blanked, being able to reset the keys to whatever is the default set for them (including l10n considerations), etc., etc.
An add-on can override keys in most cases through a uniform method and set of controls. So this is a case where building an add-on for the feature would be a lot less complex than actually trying to build it into the core.

Other considerations:
It will make the browser more complex for users: you can no longer say, when troubleshooting, that they have to press a certain keyboard shortcut because it might have been changed.
The average browser user would also not need this, putting this request in a relatively small user base.
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mikeysc

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by mikeysc » 2014-07-25, 03:27

The new version of S3 MenuWizard includes keyboard shortcuts. It also tells you which ones conflict, which really helps. It apparently may not let you assign/reassign F1-F12 though; it did not show any, but did not accept ones I tried. That other addon mentioned above, besides being an old version, did not work.

opera1217b1863

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by opera1217b1863 » 2014-07-29, 10:16

Moonchild wrote:...The average browser user would also not need this, putting this request in a relatively small user base.
-1
"An average user" may not need to display, say, Cyrillics in a page, so what?
Will one not implement the proper support for all standardised international character sets, saying "Go code your own add-on for that!"?!

I said before, I'll repeat again: there is a barest minimum of features that MUST be built-in.
As of now both FF and PM lack many of those features.

If PM is positioned as a browser "more customisable than FF" - a shortcut editor would come VERY handy.

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-07-29, 10:56

opera1217b1863 wrote:-1
"An average user" may not need to display, say, Cyrillics in a page, so what?
Will one not implement the proper support for all standardised international character sets, saying "Go code your own add-on for that!"?!
You know, that's something you can't compare. Completely different situations and a bad comparison.

Not displaying cyrillic characters is a problem as it prevents people from using the browser for what it is designed.
Not having an editor for shortcuts does NOT prevent people from using the browser for what it is designed. Not having shortcuts at all might hamper some people, but Pale Moon has shortcuts already. They are just not easily configurable (and not configurable in the browser core).

To keep your analogy, it's like asking us to implement a font editor so you can design your own cyrillic letters to display. Would that have a place in the core? Nope.
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opera1217b1863

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by opera1217b1863 » 2014-07-29, 14:55

Moonchild wrote:...They are just not easily configurable (and not configurable in the browser core)...
I know, my analogy is a bit stretchy, but it is so because PM itself is not for unwashed masses. PM users use PM for its' customisability in the first place.

I, as someone who can compare, am not very much impressed about the actual level of customisability in PM. No insults intended. It is just a heavy legacy of FF which was over-hyped by those who never used a truly customisable browser.

I clearly understand that the task at your hands is serious/difficult indeed, that's why I hope you'll have it (proper custimisability) on your list - when more imminent problems of australisation for the next ESR would be solved.

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-07-29, 17:32

opera1217b1863 wrote:I, as someone who can compare, am not very much impressed about the actual level of customisability in PM. No insults intended.
I assume you're comparing it with Opera-presto (12, was it?)? I think all in all PM has more customization options than Opera ever had, they are just different kinds of customizations. And I know you probably don't want to hear this but using extensions is part of the customization design of Pale Moon. It doesn't have everything in the core and shouldn't have everything in the core because extensions exist.

I could also say "patches welcome" if people think it's essential enough to implement in the core, but I personally think not, and think the effort would be better spent on making or perfecting a hotkey extension.
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jumba

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by jumba » 2014-07-29, 19:00

Someone could pick up the development of the mentioned addon in op and fix it for PM for what ever reason it is not working. It looked very complete keyboard shortcut editor to me.

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by VLMin » 2016-09-05, 01:07

I was browsing in the PM forum and found this thread. There once was a fantastic shortcut extension called "keyconfig", but it fell into obsolescence. Fortunately, someone has picked up where the old author left off, and the updated extension is available as Dorando keyconfig. I don't find it quite as robust as the original. But it is fairly rich with shortcuts and features, including the ability to create custom shortcuts from scratch, and it seems to work flawlessly with PM 26.4/Win.

I find that if I use a combination of Menu Wizard, already mentioned in this thread, and keyconfig, I am able to alter almost all of the shortcuts that matter to me. Perhaps others will find these similarly useful.

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Thehandyman1957

Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2016-09-05, 04:07

Just thought I would let folks know that I am using keyconfig 20110522 http://mozilla.dorando.at/keyconfig.xpi

and it works perfect in 26.4.0 :thumbup:

And the author has this to say about upgrading from an older version.
Directions to upgrade to this addon:

If you have a version of this addon prior to 20110522, upgrade to that version first. Upgrades from earlier versions may lose your key assignments..
Install "Dorando keyconfig."
BEFORE RESTARTING, uninstall any other versions of KeyConfig.
Restart Firefox/Thunderbird/Seamonkey
Open the config window (see above) to make sure your keybindings made it to the new addon.

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by bawldiggle » 2016-09-27, 21:59

@ Thehandyman1957
Thank you for the tip :)

Palemoon V26.4.1 blocks keyconfig 20110522 ... but recognises Dorando KeyConfig 2016.2
Win-7 PRO 64-bit
Palemoon; auto updates current version (32-bit)

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by Toa-Nuva » 2016-09-28, 01:07

bawldiggle wrote:Palemoon V26.4.1 blocks keyconfig 20110522 ...
It works perfectly fine for me on PM 26.4.1. I've been using this extension for several years and I've never had any problems.

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Re: Adding fully functional keyboard shortcut editor to PM

Unread post by bawldiggle » 2016-10-01, 05:58

@ Toa-Nuva

PM 26.4.1 blocked installing keyconfig 20110522 on 28-Sept-2016, 3 days ago
- I mentioned my success with installing and using Dorando KeyConfig 2016.2 in case somebody else is tearing their hair out ...
... because keyconfig 20110522 does not install for them, as it didn't for me 3 days ago.

*** keyconfig 20110522 ... is 5½ years older than ... Dorando KeyConfig 2016.2
Win-7 PRO 64-bit
Palemoon; auto updates current version (32-bit)

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