FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

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FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by jangdonggun1234 » 2013-06-06, 01:49

Mozilla Developer plan to remove add-on bar, custom toolbar and ability to add custom button to toolbar from Firefox, will Palemoon revert these feature ? Or I think Palemoon should stick with FF 24 and update security fix and other performance patch only.

Migrate items out of the add-on bar to the nav-bar: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869939
Remove the add-on bar: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... a6yBQk0E_s

Will become
http://people.mozilla.com/~mferretti/fi ... mockup.png

More info: http://www.ghacks.net/2013/05/28/mozill ... y-changes/
Add-on bar may still be removed.
User created toolbars will be removed
Main toolbar will have space for add-on buttons and widgets

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Night Wing » 2013-06-06, 11:31

I think the add-on bar is supposed to be removed in v23 of Firefox to make way for their Australis UI which is supposed to be implemented in v24 of Firefox. If the add-on bar is removed in v23 of Firefox, then I plan on not updating my backup Firefox browser past v22. I have some add-on "widgets" which sit on the far right of the add-on bar at the bottom of my page. The removal of the add-on bar is a potential deal breaker for me causing me to stay permanently on v22 of Firefox. I know Moonchild is not going the Australis route for his Pale Moon browser and I hope the add-on bar for Pale Moon will be staying.

BTW, there are two guys in the links above who seem to think these changes the FF developers are making is going to cause problems for users who like the add-on bar, me being one of them. Their posts are below.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Roland Haslinger
May 14
If there is no Official Addon available which would be accepted as official solution every addon creator would be forced to code custom bars for his/her addons if there is a need for that.

And what happens if you have more addons installed which do add multiple bars? The mess that is being created is not worth the trouble in my opinion.

I hope therefor you let the addon bar survive. Would you please? A Decision like that would let me again use Firefox - including the Australis Versions!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Madhava Enros
May 14

I think I lean in the direction of more carrot, less stick, for a release or two.

One reason is that, as Limi and Jared have mentioned, it will give add-on authors time to migrate. Another is that I suspect many people have add-on UI lurking in the add-on bar at the bottom of their screens, mostly out of sight and mind, and moving them into a toolbar at the top will make updating to Australis feel _more_ cluttered rather than less, which is not the update experience we want people to have. Yes, they can customize them to other parts of the UI, but they should feel like customization is a necessary and burdensome step.

If we're keeping the add-on bar, should we be including it in the customization mode?

Madhava"

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Last edited by Night Wing on 2013-06-06, 11:58, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Moonchild » 2013-06-06, 11:56

The add-on bar is an essential part of the Pale Moon browsing experience (it is the status bar) and I will do everything possible to retain it. As a side note, Australis will be introduced in v25, and I'm leaning towards v24ESR for the next major version of Pale Moon.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Night Wing » 2013-06-06, 12:04

Nice to know Australis is going to make it's appearance in v25. If the add-on bar isn't removed in v23 of Firefox, I will keep updating Firefox since as of right now, Firefox is my backup browser to Pale Moon.

I just wish the Firefox developers would quit messing with Firefox because I know it will impact Pale Moon in a not so friendly way sometime in the future. I'm not a fan of the new Firefox Australis look in that mockup in one of the links above in the first post on this topic.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Blacklab » 2013-06-06, 14:34

Moonchild wrote:Australis will be introduced in v25, I'm leaning towards v24ESR for the next major version of Pale Moon.
IMHO I think that sounds like an excellent idea, and if I correctly understand what an Extended Support Release is, then Pale Moon will gain some time in hand (12 months c/o ESR lifespan?) to watch how the Australis implementation actually goes down with general users/add-on developers, etc, whilst retaining full security patching, again c/o the ESR lifespan.

[quote="In a recent Add-ons Blog "Major compatibility changes coming for Firefox 25" Mozilla's Jorge Villalobos"]We released Firefox 21 just a couple of weeks ago. This means 22 is on Beta, 23 on Aurora and 24 on Nightly. Firefox 25 won’t be released until late October, so we still have a ways to go. However, this is a significant release because 24 is slated to be an Extended Support Release, so some major changes have been pushed after then to minimize any potential impact.[/quote]

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Night Wing » 2013-06-06, 15:36

If the next major release of Pale Moon is version 24 and it's an ESR release, I'd love it.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by jangdonggun1234 » 2013-06-06, 16:07

Night Wing wrote:Nice to know Australis is going to make it's appearance in v25. If the add-on bar isn't removed in v23 of Firefox, I will keep updating Firefox since as of right now, Firefox is my backup browser to Pale Moon.

I just wish the Firefox developers would quit messing with Firefox because I know it will impact Pale Moon in a not so friendly way sometime in the future. I'm not a fan of the new Firefox Australis look in that mockup in one of the links above in the first post on this topic.
All they are on a royal road to make Firefox become FireChrome. I don't think that they remove add-on bar, what they introduced in FF4.0, I even need a ability to create more than just one add-on bar(cuz I'm using Custombuttons Add-on).
Moonchild wrote:The add-on bar is an essential part of the Pale Moon browsing experience (it is the status bar) and I will do everything possible to retain it. As a side note, Australis will be introduced in v25, and I'm leaning towards v24ESR for the next major version of Pale Moon.
Thank you, good to know that :)

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by niteshade » 2013-06-06, 16:27

I'm happy with the Pale Moon UI just the way it is. The longer Moonchild can keep it that way the better. I used Netscape Navigator before it was killed by AOL then resurrected as Phoenix, then Firebird and finally Firefox. There's nothing wrong with the basic interface of the last twenty years that needs to be fixed by Australis. And there's certainly nothing wrong with the freedom of choice that Mozilla once embraced.

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Sajadi » 2013-06-06, 19:32

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=872209 - Gets a wont fix, seems the Firefox Add-on Bar is done, and that is the end of my Firefox Time for real now... UX Team is so ridiculous... Beyond Words...

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Moonchild » 2013-06-06, 20:31

Wonderful comment too "Dolske has given the OK to wontfix this" no explanation or further reasoning behind it. Awesome [/sarcasm]
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Night Wing » 2013-06-06, 20:50

Since I re-install my Windows 7 system once a year to keep it running fast and smooth, I always put the last "good" version of the Firefox installer I like on a USB thumb drive. So, I'll always have v22 of Firefox to fall back on if the FF add-on bar is done away with in v23.

Come to think of it, since I have a few more thumb drives, having the last good FF installer on one thumb drive might be a bad idea. I need to put it on at least one more thumb drive just in case I lose that first drive. Better to be safe than sorry.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Sajadi » 2013-06-06, 21:40

You can even install in the End V24 - Since Australis and all the nightmare lands with Version 25, so V24 is the best compromise between still existing features, html5 compatibility and the few options which have been cut out since V22 - Javascript options hidden in about:config

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by jangdonggun1234 » 2013-06-07, 04:04

I'm currently using Palemoon 15.4.1 and happy with this version, it had all that I need: no tab move animation, fast enougn, enougn security fix, and my bookmarklets will not work if I use version >15.

Hope people can change Mozilla plan, I don't want to see Firefox become worse and worse.

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Ryrynz » 2013-06-07, 11:21

Err, I use my Addon bar for utorrent info.. it's kinda handy... Well.. this kinda sucks.

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Night Wing » 2013-06-07, 12:45

This post concerns the Add-on bar, but you'll have to wade through the first three paragraphs so please be patient.

I think in v20, Firefox added their new Telemetry button and it is in the Advanced tab of their Options. If you have it checked, I think it sends back certain info to Mozilla and Mozilla can tell how you configure your Firefox browser along with the customizations people do in the Customize box.

I remember the small stink which was created by the FF developers adding in the New Download Manager since many people, like me, prefer the Old Download Manager. By going in to "about:config" we could get back the Old Download Manager. The FF developers were annoyed by this because I saw on one of their blog posts they were upset because it seems many users were preferring the Old Download Manager. The FF developers said this fix was temporary and they would take out the code in v21 and people would only be left with the New Download Manager.

However, in v21 of Firefox, the code is still there since the Old Download Manager is still working for me. I don't know why they didn't remove the code, but because of the new Telemetry button, it could be the FF developers actually saw how many users didn't care for the New Download Manager and didn't want people jumping ship by choosing to use another browser and/or by staying with the last version of Firefox which had the Old Download Manager.

When I downloaded version 20 and now 21 of Firefox via the FF installer, I always go into Options and check the Telemetry button and then I do my usual configuration of Firefox via Options and Customizations. I make sure the I always do the check which adds the Add-on bar. Maybe if enough Firefox users choose the Add-on bar, the FF developers might see the error of their ways (although I doubt it) and the Add-on bar might stay where it is at the bottom of the browser right above the Taskbar and won't be removed.

I've heard through the grapevine, the FF developers think whatever add-ons are on the Add-on bar, those add-ons will go to the right of the Navigation/Address bar. If that is so and if you have quite a few add-ons on the Add-on bar, the Navigation/Address bar will be shortened and if people also have the API bar to the right of the Navigation/Address bar, that is really going to look like a cluttered mess in my opinion. BTW, I don't have the API bar in my Firefox browser, but I don't want the add-ons I already have on the Add-on bar to go where the FF developers want them to go when they do away with the Add-on bar.

I hoping the Telemetry button in Firefox might save the Add-on bar since the FF developers might actually see exactly how many users have the Add-on bar enabled. If this guess is correct and there are hopefully millions of users which use the Add-on bar, the FF developers might back off concerning the removal of the Add-on bar.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Evil Moo » 2013-06-07, 21:48

The situation with Firefox development is getting increasingly concerning to me. If I wanted to use Chrome, I would be using Chrome. At this point I can only hope for some kind of developer mutiny at Mozilla so development of the browser can continue in a sensible direction. I fear that given enough major changes in the wrong direction to the Firefox base, that maintaining a technologically up to date version of Pale Moon will become impractical with the amount of nonsense that would need to be filtered out to keep the good stuff...

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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by mgagnonlv » 2013-06-08, 01:13

One question I'm wondering with regard to their new interface. If one takes the approach that Firefox has taken since Firefox 4, with only add-on icons in the add-on bar, is it still that relevant? Would Status-4-Evar extension still work on Firefox? Assuming it still works with Australis and allows displaying links and some add-on icons in the bar, then the following features will be missing from Australis:
– No menus! I like a menu bar, and even if one condenses menus into a single icon, it should be on the upper-left corner. Considering the way they cascade down and to the right, it's not logical to have a menu open anywhere else on the screen.

– For the same reason, the bookmarks iconic menu should be left of the address bar. Not only it then opens the proper way, but it's also easier to create a bookmark by dragging a favicon to the bookmark menu when it is located close to the favicon.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Night Wing » 2013-06-08, 02:43

Evil Moo wrote:The situation with Firefox development is getting increasingly concerning to me. If I wanted to use Chrome, I would be using Chrome. At this point I can only hope for some kind of developer mutiny at Mozilla so development of the browser can continue in a sensible direction. I fear that given enough major changes in the wrong direction to the Firefox base, that maintaining a technologically up to date version of Pale Moon will become impractical with the amount of nonsense that would need to be filtered out to keep the good stuff...
I believe there will never be a developer mutiny at Mozilla because the head honchos at Mozilla want to copy many of these Google Chrome like changes. Playing devil's advocate, if there were developers with enough backbone who wouldn't want to do what the head honchos wanted, these developers with convictions would get fired on the spot and then the head honchos will just hire new developers to give the head honchos what they want. That's just how business operates.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by Moonchild » 2013-06-08, 05:48

mgagnonlv wrote:Would Status-4-Evar extension still work on Firefox?
S4E would probably be limited to display linkover and status information in the URL bar, as the add-on bar as a target will no longer exist. Even if they retain it, it will most likely not be a customization target.
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Re: FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2013-06-08, 19:57

Image

Since the UI parts least currently are stored in /browser/ you should be able to stay up to date on the gecko parts while maintaining the firefox UI not the chrome one.

Maybe we should be collecting current firefox extensions and go all outreach to these developers.

What I mean is.. Seamonkey has alot more on it's plate than a browser. They are able to maintain the UI separate from what firefox does as long as it isn't ported over or made part of toolkit even then they have some of their own things. Such as using the info bar as a replacement for door hangers. As well as their own Download Manager and combo Data manager that takes care about 4 toolkit versions in one UI.
Last edited by New Tobin Paradigm on 2013-06-08, 20:11, edited 1 time in total.

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