Pale Moon 25 and the art of exaggeration

[Moonchild]

Since it's a clear trend, maybe someone can explain the following repeated formula to me.

Pale Moon was updated to 25. Someone is unhappy because stuff doesn't work exactly the way it used to. Okay, I get it. I understand that.

But what I don't understand is how it ends up being (almost literally each time) something along the following lines:

(optional greeting)

(optional "I understand why you are doing this, BUT")
I was happy with Pale Moon but since I upgraded to v25 all my add-ons broke and I can't visit any website anymore because it no longer recognizes Pale Moon.

I'm switching back to Firefox.
(optional expletives)
(optional signature)

How does "some select add-ons" become "all add-ons"?
How does "some websites" or "the one website I just tried to visit" become "any website"?

[x-15a2]

How does "some select add-ons" become "all add-ons"?
How does "some websites" or "the one website I just tried to visit" become "any website"?

My opinion, those making those post think that exaggeration and hyperbole will make a better case for their argument instead of realizing that it just makes them come across as caustic and belligerent.

What I don't get is why people start out pissed off? I get it if they ask a reasonable question in a civil manner and, in doing so find that they disagree with the response. At that point it's totally reasonable for then to quietly seek out different solutions. But to start out with abrasive comments and ill-founded conjecture does no good for anyone involved.

Hang in there Moonchild, there are a lot of us that get it and are willing to be supportive and do what we can to help out.

[SvenG]

People LOOOOOOOOOVE drama.

Sure it's not cool when addons you like don't work any more (sometimes a good reason to search for alternate ones, made me find a few nice ones), sure it's not cool when a website you like doesn't work any more. But still it is no reason for drama. Usually, when people stay calm and ask politely, they will find some helpful answers.

Don't worry, Moonchild, follow your path, it's not too terribly wrong, and don't listen to others (too much).

[InS4N3]

The only website I have had issues is with Blizzard customer support chat window, the rest of webs works perfect for me. v25 is doing quite good.

[nana2]

...and I can't visit any website anymore because it no longer recognizes Pale Moon.

Then how was the poster able to post in a forum???

So far I encountered just 1 website announcing that I was not using one of the 3 major browsers but it seems to work just the same as always. Installed PM v 25.0 on Oct 10.

My thoughts are that possibly these type of complaints come from the ones that fled from australis and flocked to PM? Drama queens alright!

Moonchild, I am sure that there are countless others, including myself, who support you and PM.

[Sariel]

Welcome to the new generation Moonchild. In an era were you can live in comfort, can have anything at your hand in seconds (or days at most), its no wonder people have grown used to expecting everything to work exactly as they want it to be. Its the same issue with any discussion, differences in opinions/points-of-view, we live in a hyperbolized world where small discrepancies end up being bigger issues than the actually important problems.

But while you have noticed those complaining, I've actually seen in the recent days a surge of people in forums/imageboard/social media actually mentioning Pale Moon in a good light/as an option for those unsatisfied with the current bloat-ser trend. So fret not Moonchild, for each "trend" there is always a counter-trend.

[nouroog]

Not really exaggeration.
So far, updates have gone smoothly and Pale Moon has provided a great service.
With PM 25, it is not all add-ons and all web sites which do not work, but a significant number. Some menus are disorganized or broken. In any case, many PM users came to realize that this update was really different, if not a radical break.

Someone mentioned a change of philosophy. Maybe an exaggeration as well. Or maybe not.
I joined PM when FF changed drastically its user interface. I opted for PM and not Chrome, because I could use my favorite FF add-ons with PM.
What I liked is what PM promised on this page about the Pale Moon user interface layout http://www.palemoon.org/layout-differences.shtml YOUR BROWSER, YOUR WAY. Sounded so nice to me and PM met my expectations until version 25.

Some may consider add-ons and layout customisation just as cosmetic things or gadgets. I personally think that add-ons and other customisations are terribly important in any web experience: they shape how we use - and enjoy - the web everyday.

I see that the PM staff and community are doing their best to solve problems and provide solutions. I am not skilled enough to help. But I'll try to stay with PM (at the moment Pm24) as long as I can.
Thank you Pale Moon.

Julien (Paris - France - sorry for my poor English).

[Moonchild]

Not really exaggeration.
So far, updates have gone smoothly and Pale Moon has provided a great service.
With PM 25, it is not all add-ons and all web sites which do not work, but a significant number.

If it isn't what the user says it is, doesn't that make it an exaggeration...?

Some menus are disorganized or broken.

The menus have not, in any way, changed.

Someone mentioned a change of philosophy.

The philosophy behind Pale Moon has not changed.

What I liked is what PM promised on this page about the Pale Moon user interface layout http://www.palemoon.org/layout-differences.shtml YOUR BROWSER, YOUR WAY. Sounded so nice to me and PM met my expectations until version 25.

This promise is still kept. You can fully customize your user interface. The default layout has not changed. All the points on that page remain satisfied (or I would have changed it).

I personally think that add-ons and other customisations are terribly important in any web experience: they shape how we use - and enjoy - the web everyday.

They are important, indeed. But they should not be considered so terribly important that they can hold back an absolutely necessary core development. And the stress is here on "absolutely necessary". That would also be an exaggeration. In the end, the number of affected extensions is small, the required changes in them are also small. So small even that anyone with basic knowledge of file editing (and not too lazy to test the result thoroughly) could do it in many cases and help us out.

I see that the PM staff and community are doing their best to solve problems and provide solutions.

And that is what anyone can ever do, in the end: their best.
I've put in a lot of hours to bring you v25, with it's inherent core improvements and an out-of-the-box "compatibility mode" that allows you to load extensions that are no longer actually made for the browser you are now running. Some problems can be expected, especially if the extension development community is far from as active as it used to be (thanks to Mozilla's current direction and "developer fatigue"). Everyone else involved is also working hard to solve the current issues (adapting extensions, setting up the addons site, helping out with support, etc.). In fact, another point release will be made soon to address some additional teething issues and making it easier for people to switch to "Firefox compatibility mode" to satisfy websites' backwards browser capability guessing scripts.

[etosan]

Don't worry about it Moonchild! I am total newcomer here but I decided to chime in anyway. I just did couple of reads in these forums and I completely understand what's going on.

Only thing which is at fault here, is the fact this GUUID thing should have been probably done sooner(!), but who could have known it will come to this, right :) (nobody believed that mozilla is willing to go that far either)?

For those of you ragequiting:

• Just take your baggage and go on your happy next-browser-hunts, and never return back, even, you might not be needed really!
• You are just extension "pickers" anyway, and you ended up here for completely wrong reasons!
• Sorry to break this to you but most of your extensions are shit anyway (spyware and data collection) heck even AdBlock might be collecting data on you (you don't see inside the severs do you? and people say lot of lies (adblock whitelisting anyone)) and anyways you don't really need them...
• ... but alternative Gecko based browser with spirit of old Firefox is very much needed!

Yes this might be difficult time but it is also most important turning point in this little adventure.
It is the moment where Pale Moon is solidfing itself as standalone browser. Most of you might be pissed off, but this is the moment where it actually needs your full support the most!
Mozilla ditched Thunderbird, and it ditched "old Firefox" for good, so many of you left and ended up here.
Now is your turn to "give back" and support Pale Moon back, don't just pull moz-ditch on Pale Moon yet, otherwise you are same as mozilla folks currently reigning. Rember Firefox doesn't belong to just to them, it belongs to all of us, and some of as want it back!

Extension doesn't work well? So why don't you try to fix it? Or find somebody who is willing to look into that? Or bug extension dev instead? You know, maybe he/she doesn't even know you use his/her ext. with Pale Moon. Or he/she doesn't care because never heard of this browser. He/she might be just tired of Firefox as well and Pale Moon would make him/her happy again, so tell them (asking politely) okay?

Or just hold on and show your support.

I saw several tweaked FFs before but none was so close to home as this one. Heck even with this one I needed to do couple of about:config tweaks to get it to my liking, but it's nowhere near as much as I needed to do with any Firefox before (kudos devs)!

Extensions/Addons page and theme page is on this site - which is pretty big achievement in itself IMHO, fill it up!

But if this whole thing doesn't ring a bell with you, yes leaving might be best option for you. But maybe you should not give up and you should take a stand instead.

[Jonguy30]

I have just updated to version 25 and everything seems to be in working order. All of my extensions work and I've not encountered any problematic websites yet! And it seems more responsive too. I tried an early beta of 25 when it was in development and the same responsiveness was there too!

[lyceus]

Is just the things that you expect in computer science. Example: Nobody knows the guy that runs the network at office until the browser do not connect to Facebook and Instragram. Nobody knows the forum of a program until they find a bug and want a magical instant solution. This will get quiet with some times, just endure enough and these dorks will leave.

[Blackthorne]

Newbie here: I had some issues when Pale Moon 25 rolled out, but compatibility mode fixed most of them (thanks to Moonchild for the work-around options you posted). As long as Pale Moon doesn't make the stupid UI changes that drove me away from FireFox 29, I intend to stick with Pale Moon as my primary browser for as long as I can. I'd be interested to see how many of those people actually returned to Firefox and haven't come back. The minor issues with the Pale Moon 25 release are nothing compared to the shock they'd get seeing how far Firefox has sunk in their absence. I suspect those that installed Firefox quickly regretted their decision and either came back or began to hunt for other options.

[lyceus]

I'd be interested to see how many of those people actually returned to Firefox and haven't come back. The minor issues with the Pale Moon 25 release are nothing compared to the shock they'd get seeing how far Firefox has sunk in their absence.

Pale Moon won't have these UI for sure, that's our war cry. People mat return when the mess of add-ons are done and/or they see that firefox deny download their files since they are "not good for them" (a real feature added in version 30 and up); or they see that the web shows adds from their local neighborhood since Chrome always call home and steal their privacy for serve ads. Their choice.

[Roranicus]

Having been using version 25.0.2 for a few days, I have to say it works much better then the comments on the forums seem to be suggesting. It's fast, stable and a grand total of 4 of my addons had issues. (I use more then 20)

-Stylish shows two icons in the addon page, pretty much a non-issue and I think I saw a fix for it in the forums.
-Adblock not showing it's icon, which got a temporary fix with the pseudo-static and a permanent one once Tobin is done forking it.
-Change referer button, I was actually positively surprised to see someone forked that one for palemoon. I guess I'm not the only one here who really likes it.
-https everywhere, only real issue I have. I suppose there might be some other addon out there that does the same thing.

So yeah, there was some definite exageration on the forums, especially since most of us went through Australis and the firefox 4.0 changes. Overall, great work on the new release. I have to admit I did not expect Palemoon 25 to run this great.

Off-topic:
Speaking of exaggeration, I saw the adblock plus forums and some of the people there were pretty disrespectful. If anything I wouldn't be surprise if they get as many installations on palemoon as they do on IE, a browser they fully support. Don't quote me on it, but I feel most people who know enough to install addons also know enough to not use IE.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Off-topic:
Adblock Plus and Adblock Edge will have NO further installations from Pale Moon users due to the dismissive attitude from the former and lack of ANY response from the latter. I am creating a fork to take the place of both called Adblock Latitude which is currently in developmental testing. It will be based on AdBlock Plus however like Adblock Edge the acceptable ads feature is removed. Thus satisfying both groups of users. As acceptable ads IS just another filterlist you can of course find it and add it manually but I will not be catering to it.

In addition, both ABE and ABP will be removed from the site when ABL is released. Though the users of ABP will have the greatest advantage as ABL will install over the ABP Psuedo-Static and also use the same preferences as both the Psuedo-Static and previous Main-line. Unfortunately, I cannot offer the same to ABE users except getting all the advantages of later ABP versions without acceptable ads and arguably a MUCH more stable version because it is specifically targeted to Pale Moon technologies and will not suffer from Australis co-oping.

That does remind me I should create an ABL thread soon instead of it being in now 4 separate threads lol

[silverfox]

Don't worry Bluhell firewall still works I've test it on sourceforge ads website they're all gone.
Without ADP doesn't mean End of the world for me. There're many many other plugins out there.

[DAC324]

Hello,

just came across this thread while doing a search for AdBlock.

AdBlock Plus does not seem to work completely with Pale Moon. Neither does AdBlock Edge.

While AdBlock Plus still seems to be able to block ads, it is not possible to add a filter subscription from a link. You will get an error message like:

Pale Moon doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (abp) isn't associated with any program.

Reinstalling AdBlock Plus does not help.

AdBlock Edge, since some days, now breaks the Google Mail web interface. You will not be able to switch from the mails to the contact manager and back. Also, it is not possible to log out from Google Mail. Replacing AdBlock Edge by AdBlock Plus at least fixes this problem.

Kind regards,

DAC324

[Jonguy30]

Have you tried the "pseudo-static" version of either ABP or ABE? Look here: http://addons.palemoon.org/extensions/privacy-and-security/

The Pale Moon developers are in the process of developing a fork of APB called "Adblock Latitude" because the pseudo-static is only a temporary solution. The Adblock plus developers themselves denied support for Pale Moon, and we can't use "Adblock plus" branding because of some legal issues, whatever those are. (trademarking, mostly)

[New Tobin Paradigm]

ABL is a Binary Outcast Software product i am just making sure it stays in line with Pale Moon as the only supported product. But Adblock Latitude is NOT apart of the Pale Moon project dispite my connection

[Jonguy30]

Yeah, I know it's separate, but isn't Moonchild involved in development too? Or just (mainly) you?