Speed up boot times

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link68759

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by link68759 » 2014-01-27, 19:51

Moonchild wrote:It will make your OS load up slower by using it, of course.
Not as slow as having firefox/palemoon start at boot, since it isn't preloading extensions or session (from what I can see).

It's true that this will not save time in the limited scope of "computer power on -> palemoon open", but that is not the only use case of this preloader.

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Moonchild
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Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-01-27, 20:08

So, the preloader will have limited use - loading and initializing extensions is what usually takes the most time.
But, I guess if you chop a relatively long wait up in two chunks, it makes both of those waits matter less. :)
You should rename it "core preloader" or something?
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
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link68759

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by link68759 » 2014-01-27, 21:40

Moonchild wrote:So, the preloader will have limited use - loading and initializing extensions is what usually takes the most time.
But, I guess if you chop a relatively long wait up in two chunks, it makes both of those waits matter less. :)
You should rename it "core preloader" or something?
No arguments there. I actually am not seeing a drastic improvement, with my many tabs and many extensions. Sure it might go from ~10s to ~7s now, but... anything over ~2s already interrupts my flow and once I'm in for a wait, another second or so hardly matters. I'm not sure if cutting off a negligible amount of time is worth having an extra process sitting in my RAM/tray 24/7 (I'm obsessive compulsive about that sort of thing).

I'm really just doing this as a learning experience, and because others seem happy with their results.

But yes, I think the idea behind this preloader(coreloader? softloader?) is keeping it ready to start *at all times*, so that the user may open and close it as often as he/she wishes and would perceive a reduced browser load time.

For me, I'm going to create an AHK script that fully loads the user session + extension, hidden, whenever the process exits (with a delay so it doesn't interfere with restarts). Then unhide the window when the title string changes (user clicked a url somewhere, or a shortcut that opens a newtab) If it works well, I'll post it here, or in the thread I may make for the preloader.

megaman

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by megaman » 2014-01-28, 00:16

link68759 wrote:I actually am not seeing a drastic improvement, with my many tabs and many extensions. Sure it might go from ~10s to ~7s now, but... anything over ~2s already interrupts my flow and once I'm in for a wait, another second or so hardly matters.
Okay, testing times.
I have 20 add-ons:
Warm-boots
Regular start without the Preloader is 8 seconds.
Start with Preloader is 1.5 seconds.
Extremely noticeable improvement.

link68759

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by link68759 » 2014-01-28, 00:38

37 [enabled] extensions (47 extensions total)
76 tabs in this tab group, 112 tabs in session.
9 User scripts, 2 of which apply to all pages
15 user styles, 4 of which affect UI components of firefox

Warm boot: 11s
With preloader: 8s

Unfortunately I'm not reaping the benefits of my own labor, but I'm glad it's working so well for you. :)

Edit- with the preloader, palemoon opens immediately, but it takes 8 seconds to render the window. Without preloader, the window won't even pop up for at least 5 seconds.

megaman

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by megaman » 2014-01-28, 00:45

link68759 wrote:37 [enabled] extensions (47 extensions total)
76 tabs in this tab group, 112 tabs in session.
9 User scripts, 2 of which apply to all pages
15 user styles, 4 of which affect UI components of firefox

Warm boot: 11s
With preloader: 8s

Edit- with the preloader, palemoon opens immediately, but it takes 8 seconds to render the window. Without preloader, the window won't even pop up for at least 5 seconds.
Understood. I thought that I was going overboard with add-ons. You have bested me beyond belief.
Yes, even with a Preloader, you do have an excessive amount of things, but they work for you, so I don't question it.

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Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-01-28, 01:56

@link: So, let me get this straight - you want 112 tabs, with 2 active user scripts for each tab, and 15 applied styles, and 37 active extensions, and the core, and hardware acceleration and back-end rendering engine, all to load and initialize in under 2 seconds? :lol: :roll:

Sorry, but 11 seconds is already pretty good for that, and I don't think <8 would be possible, period, considering the amount of work that needs to be done per tab. Shaving off those 3 seconds is nice, regardless.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
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link68759

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by link68759 » 2014-01-28, 02:15

I have pm set to not load a tab until I selected it, so if I understand this correctly, start up routines are working with 1 tab.
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dark_moon

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by dark_moon » 2014-01-28, 05:20

It exist a option to load tabs until selected, yes.
But!: This didn't work for pinned tabs.
So if the user have many pinned tabs, PM loads they all at start ;)

link68759

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by link68759 » 2014-01-28, 05:47

dark_moon wrote:It exist a option to load tabs until selected, yes.
But!: This didn't work for pinned tabs.
So if the user have many pinned tabs, PM loads they all at start ;)
Good to know. I've never really used the pin tabs feature- but having a way to 'always load this page on start' is a good feature.

megaman

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by megaman » 2014-01-28, 09:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdTclPkj ... e=youtu.be

Temp vid, unlisted so only those with the link can see it.

My timings were off, about 5 - 6 seconds for regular boot.
About 750ms to 1 second to load with Preloader.

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Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-01-28, 12:25

link68759 wrote:I have pm set to not load a tab until I selected it, so if I understand this correctly, start up routines are working with 1 tab.
Nope, you don't understand how sessions work.
A tab is a "container". Even if you don't load the contents of the container straight away, you still have to initialize the container. The container also includes the individual history for that container (otherwise a restored session won't have the option to use the back navigation option) and everything that would need to be initialized for an active tab, will also have to be initialized for an inactive tab.

Also, if you have multiple tab groups, the tabs in other groups have the same weight as the tabs in your active group, "background groups" are tabs that are hidden from view but initialized all the same.

Also, any pinned tabs as stated are all fully loaded and will slow down your browser start. Pinned tabs are considered "web applications" and "should at all times be running". Pinned tabs in background groups are also fully loaded the same way, just hidden from view.
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"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

jumba

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by jumba » 2014-01-28, 17:28

link68759 wrote:As far as the unloading options not working- I'm calling that a happy accident. Why the heck should closing the preloader also force palemoon to exit? The only setback is that if you exit the preloader while palemoon is *not* running, a preloaded palemoon.exe will probably remain until the next time you start palemoon or kill it yourself. I haven't noticed any conflicts with sessions yet though, and IMO I'd rather have it this way than having it kill my opened browser should I want to close the preloader. Regardless, I'll look into it.
Agreed, I think that it would be better to remove these options from the tray menu altogether.

For the start up time reduction converstation, I think that preloading is a good way to hide the cold boot from the user and make an illusion of fast startup, just what microsoft does with IE, right?

link68759

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by link68759 » 2014-01-28, 18:52

jumba wrote:
link68759 wrote:As far as the unloading options not working- I'm calling that a happy accident. Why the heck should closing the preloader also force palemoon to exit? The only setback is that if you exit the preloader while palemoon is *not* running, a preloaded palemoon.exe will probably remain until the next time you start palemoon or kill it yourself. I haven't noticed any conflicts with sessions yet though, and IMO I'd rather have it this way than having it kill my opened browser should I want to close the preloader. Regardless, I'll look into it.
Agreed, I think that it would be better to remove these options from the tray menu altogether.

For the start up time reduction converstation, I think that preloading is a good way to hide the cold boot from the user and make an illusion of fast startup, just what microsoft does with IE, right?
IE does something, but it's nothing compared to what chrome does. IE takes a good 7 seconds to open up 15 tabs, whereas chrome seems to open instantly with a very high number of tabs. I'll see what I can do about the tray icon options and the popup.
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Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-01-29, 00:28

(content removed)

**deep breath**

Now that's out of my system, I'm not going to respond any more to this thread, as I have better things to do. If you figure out a way to make the preloader bug-free, awesome, and I'll make sure to make more of a mention of it (I already adjusted the FAQ on http://www.palemoon.org to indicate it's being worked on). The preloader combats some symptoms of cold start by forcing Windows to cache browser components, but as you've seen even with that a heavily loaded browser with a large session will still take more that "what you find acceptable" by a factor 4 or more because of what I explained needs to be done in a browser in that situation.
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"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

sIDcORK

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by sIDcORK » 2014-01-29, 03:41

...and The January 2014 Award for Patience When Dealing With an Obtuse Poster goes to... fumbles with gold envelope ...Moonchild! <rapturous applause> :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

megaman

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by megaman » 2014-01-29, 04:23

Okay, guys, please, let's stay on-topic.
Also, check my video for a demonstration of the Prealoader in action.

26F36DD

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by 26F36DD » 2014-01-29, 11:54

I don't want to switch one start for another. Thanks but no thanks.

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Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by Night Wing » 2014-01-30, 04:49

link68759 wrote:I've suspected for a while, and now it's pretty evident: moonchild is reflexively hostile to the idea that anyone would want something more than his optimizations to firefox.
If you think you can build an optimized version of Firefox like Moonchild has with Pale Moon and make it better than Pale Moon, they do so. I'm sure a person like yourself has plenty of time on their hands and won't mind spending his own hard earned money to make a better version of both Firefox and Pale Moon. And if you do, I have no doubt you'll meet another person just like yourself who will snipe at you over some "point" and then you'll find out just how much patience you have with that individual.
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link68759

Re: Speed up boot times

Unread post by link68759 » 2014-01-30, 05:56

Night Wing wrote:
link68759 wrote:I've suspected for a while, and now it's pretty evident: moonchild is reflexively hostile to the idea that anyone would want something more than his optimizations to firefox.
If you think you can build an optimized version of Firefox like Moonchild has with Pale Moon and make it better than Pale Moon, they do so. I'm sure a person like yourself has plenty of time on their hands and won't mind spending his own hard earned money to make a better version of both Firefox and Pale Moon. And if you do, I have no doubt you'll meet another person just like yourself who will snipe at you over some "point" and then you'll find out just how much patience you have with that individual.
No one is saying we don't appreciate his contributions, was my point. We wouldn't be here otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want firefox to start up at least as fast as chrome and IE do (my setup notwithstanding),
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