Cannot Browse webpage on Orbitel Website

[ascii_elite]

I think the problem may be Pale Moon itself; that, under certain conditions, Pale Moon might not load a page.

Perhaps this has something to do with a change in the FOrefox core.

[Moonchild]

It has nothing to do with the code base, really - there's something wrong with the certificate chain for that particular website. It may even be a load balancer problem that sometimes you get served correct data and sometimes not.

please grab the certificate from the exported pem file I made from my version of Pale Moon that works.
you can import this in yours, and it should give you a warning with the option to add an exception as a fix until version 8 is released.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1466747/www.orbitel.com.pem

Import through tools -> options -> advanced -> tab encryption -> button View Certificates -> tab servers -> button "Import..."

[megaman]

Just for the record, I am also able to go to that page without any issues.

There has to be something on his browser causing conflict. I thought it was the login entirely, but it requires a purchase to make an account, not something we would do directly.

[Moonchild]

The secure login page over SSL gave the error for me as well in my test setups for v6 and v701, not v702 or v8 when I tried them.
so there's something odd going on, for sure.

I've re-exported the pem (same url) to include the entire chain, that should definitely work.

[ascii_elite]

please grab the certificate from the exported pem file I made from my version of Pale Moon that works.
you can import this in yours, and it should give you a warning with the option to add an exception as a fix until version 8 is released.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1466747/www.orbitel.com.pem

Import through tools -> options -> advanced -> tab encryption -> button View Certificates -> tab servers -> button "Import..."

Thanks Moonchild.

The workaround was effective.

[megaman]

The secure login page over SSL gave the error for me as well in my test setups for v6 and v701, not v702 or v8 when I tried them.
so there's something odd going on, for sure.

I've re-exported the pem (same url) to include the entire chain, that should definitely work.

Okay understood, but I am still on 7.0.1(Stable release), so this truly is odd.

We'll wait for your input, ascii_elite.

[Moonchild]

I would at least be very careful. A man-in-the-middle attack may cause the same issues we see here, in which case Pale Moon is doing its job warning about an invalid certificate.

[ascii_elite]

I would at least be very careful. A man-in-the-middle attack may cause the same issues we see here, in which case Pale Moon is doing its job warning about an invalid certificate.

What I find odd is that Mozilla Firefox 6.0.2 has no difficulty displaying the Orbitel login page.

Could this be an ISP issue (AT&T) specifically targeting Pale Moon traffic?

[megaman]

Could this be an ISP issue (AT&T) specifically targeting Pale Moon traffic?

I am not sure about that hypothesis but AT&T is my provider.

[Moonchild]

Specific targeting of Pale Moon traffic: I sincerely doubt that.
Although it's possible that the intermittent nature of the problems is caused by some caching on servers going on - I don't really have the tools or the time at the moment to investigate.

EDIT: Or Orbitel's servers are misconfigured in an attempt to only allow "known" versions, and it breaking on a known version with an additional identifier in the useragent... several possibilities.

[ascii_elite]

I tried Pale Moon 8.0 today on a different computer and at a different site with a different Internet connection (but still AT&T as the ISP) than than ones I primarily before in this thread.

The computer I used today ran and runs Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2 (similar configuration as the other computer I primarily used in this thread).

The error page at the Orbitel website login page once again manifested.


I later tested Pale Moon 8.0 on yet another computer, but this time with Comcast Cable as the Internet Service Provider and with Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 3.

The error page at the Orbitel website login page manifested.

The problem does not appear to be corrected in Pale Moon 8.0.

EDIT: I now tested the Orbitel login page on the computer I originally used when I started this thread. The problem also manifested.

[ascii_elite]

The secure login page over SSL gave the error for me as well in my test setups for v6 and v701, not v702 or v8 when I tried them.
so there's something odd going on, for sure.

What operating system(s) are used on the Pale Moon 7.0.2 and Pale Moon 8.0 est systems? What operating systems are used on the Pale Moon v6 and Pale Moon 7.0.1 test setups?

@megaman:

What operating system did you use when you tested the Orbitel login page?

[megaman]

What operating system(s) are used on the Pale Moon 7.0.2 and Pale Moon 8.0 est systems? What operating systems are used on the Pale Moon v6 and Pale Moon 7.0.1 test setups?

@megaman:

What operating system did you use when you tested the Orbitel login page?

Ha! I just got it as well.(Currently using PM 8.0.)

System using for both versions is Windows 7 Ultimate X64-bit. (I use 32-bit versions of Pale Moon because of the plugins.)

I didn't come across it on Internet Explorer 9, Firefox Nightly 11.0a1 , and The Maple Studio's ChromePlus! 1.6.4.12Beta (Based on Chromium 14).

Edit: It also affects the main site https://www.orbitel.com when it has https: instead of http.

[satrow]

Interesting, happens to me on 2x computers here (XP and W7), in 5 different Mozilla-based browsers from K-Meleon through to Nightly (x86 and x64).

[Moonchild]

When I tested 6.0.2, 7.0.1, 7.0.2 and 8.0 it was all on the same computer, on the same o.s. (Win XP SP2) using different copies of the portable with (mostly) the same profile data - I'm still not sure what the issue is or why this one website refuses to work in half the cases and is fine other times.
I use a LOT of secure sites in my daily browsing and it's not an issue anywhere else, with any version of the browser, so it's very specific to this site and this certificate.

Also, the notification on the page you get: "Please contact the web site owners to inform them of this problem. Alternatively, use the command found in the help menu to report this broken site." is there for a reason You might want to let them know that something is amiss with their SSL.

[ascii_elite]

Interesting, happens to me on 2x computers here (XP and W7), in 5 different Mozilla-based browsers from K-Meleon through to Nightly (x86 and x64).

I think something might be incorrect with regards to the logic and grammar of your statement.

Are you reporting that the problem manifests for you in other Mozilla-based browsers?

[ascii_elite]

It also affects the main site https://www.orbitel.com when it has https: instead of http.

This is not unexpected, but it is a good point to note.

[ascii_elite]

I'm still not sure what the issue is or why this one website refuses to work in half the cases and is fine other times.
I use a LOT of secure sites in my daily browsing and it's not an issue anywhere else, with any version of the browser

It should be noted that, according to your reports, you could initially browse the login page of the Orbitel website. It would be reasonable to assume that if the problem that is manifesting when browsing the secure Orbitel website is not manifesting, the problem may also not manifest on other websites. The converse is also true.

For me, the problem with the Pale Moon and the Orbitel secure site manifest 100% of the time; I have not been able to browse the website with Pale Moon unless I use the workaround you provided earlier in tis thread. I, myself, have not noticed the problem yet to occur on other websites (though after noticing the problem with Pale Moon and the Orbitel website, I significantly decreased my use of Pale Moon)

Also, the notification on the page you get: "Please contact the web site owners to inform them of this problem. Alternatively, use the command found in the help menu to report this broken site." is there for a reason You might want to let them know that something is amiss with their SSL.

The problem seems to be that Pale Moon specifically does not function correctly to handle the secure Orbitel website correctly or (inclusively) that the Orbitel website does not function correctly (including a defect in a security certificate) to properly be verified by pale Moon.

Orbitel uses its secure site for purchases and user management of its services. It, wherefore, has an interest (financial and other) that users are able to visit its secure website. If the problem were reported to Orbitel, the problem may no longer manifest; Orbitel may either fix or workaround the issue so that traffic to its secure site occurs.

My concern is that if the problem were reported to Orbitel and Pale Moon is at fault, the underlying problem would remain and have the potential to manifest in the future.

Orbitel has options of identifying a browser. The potential options I can think of are: 1. Examining the reported useragent string 2. Performing a test of behavior (often scripted). From what I understand about the advertised differences between Pale Moon and Mozilla Firefox, Pale Moon with a Firefox useragent string should not be determinable different than Firefox at the server side.

I have tried forcing my Pale Moon useragent string to match that of Mozilla Firefox. The problem still persisted and the Orbitel secure web page did not load on Pale Moon.

Because I believe that Orbitel may not be able to differentiate between Pale Moon and Mozilla Firefox traffic and the problem described in this thread manifests on Pale Moon, but not on Firefox, I believe that the problem might be the Pale Moon browser itself.

[Moonchild]

1. The problem seems to be that you are convinced that pale moon is at fault - if that is the case, then Orbitel can't provide a workaround.
   Not reporting this to Orbitel would be the wrong thing to do. Without info from the server-side, it's going to be very hard to figure out what is going on.
2. Take into account that this problem ONLY manifests itself on the orbitel website. if there was something fundamentally flawed in Pale Moon, it would occur on more sites, which it hasn't.
3. Take into account that this occurs on varying browser installations, depending on system (as you have seen) it either consistently fails or succeeds with the same browser version on that particular system. That browser version may display a different result on a different computer. That makes this a very strange problem that obviously is not related to the browser version. I can still browse to the secure login page on 7.0.2 and 8.0 on my system but not with 7.0.1 or 6.x - but megaman has said that he could not with 8.0, for example.
4. Also consider that the SSL/TLS code is not something I will ever touch. I leave that in the capable hands of the TLS/encryption gurus. As such this is (like most of the browser) 100%, character for character, the exact same code as Firefox.

All this combined points clearly to an oddity at the Orbitel server, and not at a fundamental problem or bug in Pale Moon. There are many thinkable causes for this, but none of them are obvious, and none of them can be verified without server-side information.

EDIT: Shot Orbitel a message with the kind request to look into this and to let me know as much info as possible on this problem from their end.

[satrow]

Interesting, happens to me on 2x computers here (XP and W7), in 5 different Mozilla-based browsers from K-Meleon through to Nightly (x86 and x64).

I think something might be incorrect with regards to the logic and grammar of your statement.

Are you reporting that the problem manifests for you in other Mozilla-based browsers?

I'm under-educated.

Yes, I have the same issue with K-Meleon (like FX 3.5), FX 8, 10 and 11, as well as PM8. I also tried some of the later browsers in 32bit and also 64bit modes.

On the http site (FX8x86):
"The page isn't redirecting properly
Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete.
This problem can sometimes be caused by disabling or refusing to accept
cookies."

On the https site (same browser):
"Secure Connection Failed
An error occurred during a connection to http://www.orbitel.com.
Peer's certificate has an invalid signature.
(Error code: sec_error_bad_signature)
The page you are trying to view can not be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.
Please contact the web site owners to inform them of this problem. Alternatively, use the command found in the help menu to report this broken site."

There is a cookie from Orbitel in the browser, that narrows down the http "cookie handling" problem somewhat.

I ran a quick check with an online website testing tool: https://browsermob.com/free-website-per ... 932ca1e3c0 which gets the same error on http.

My guess is that it's a server-side problem.