[Solved] Palemoon instability since v19

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drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 16:52

it hung again, lol.

mind you i successfully opened pale moon, dragged and dropped the favicon from the address bar to the desktop and subsequently closed palemoon a couple times with no problems.
then all the sudden on like test 4 or 5 of doing the same thing over and over it decided to hang...

sysinternals process monitor capture attached for the hang.
Attachments
palemoon_procmon.7z
(720.64 KiB) Downloaded 50 times

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Moonchild
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Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by Moonchild » 2013-08-08, 17:19

In the meantime I've researched the particular function but don't see anything odd -- and bugzilla doesn't have any report of this particular issue either.
"random" behavior is never good, either so I think you may have some database corruption in your profile. At this point I would suggest you perform a profile reset, go to Help -> troubleshooting information, and use "Reset Pale Moon".
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 17:33

7-zipped my palemoon profile
reset palemoon

EDIT: (an hour+ later)
decided to create new profile instead of resetting the existing profile (not a fan of the folder naming system)
imported old bookmarks HTML file
re-installed and configured addons.

will post back when next hang occurs

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 18:36

LOL this is hilarious

i opened & closed palemoon a couple times, then opened it, dbl clicked the url file on my desktop. it opened this thread to page 1, clicked page 3, posted reply, dragged and dropped the favicon in the address bar back to desktop, overwrote existing icon. closed pale moon...

reopened palemoon, nope, hung.....

dark_moon

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by dark_moon » 2013-08-08, 18:39

Do you try the windows safemode? Cause you have many processes (101 at your screen) open, which is a lot.

Because non of us have the problems you have.

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 18:41

so, palemoon has closed and restarted another dozen or so times with no problems what so ever.


yeah, i know im the only one with this problem...

megaman

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by megaman » 2013-08-08, 18:48

drivetheory wrote:so, palemoon has closed and restarted another dozen or so times with no problems what so ever.
There are so many things that we pin-point, but need to know a well starting point.
You could have some running programs that interfere, antivirus perhaps?
Your antivirus might still start on SafeMode, but then we can find the culprits a bit easier.

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Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by Moonchild » 2013-08-08, 18:50

I understand it's frustrating, but there has to be a reason that this occurs on your system. How quickly after dragging and dropping are you closing the browser session? Almost immediately? What if you drag and drop it to a regular folder instead of your desktop?

EDIT: since it's irregular, have you more extensively tested this with Firefox as well or not?

EDIT2: Did you make sure not to use any add-ons or plugins when testing?
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 19:22

megaman wrote:You could have some running programs that interfere, antivirus perhaps?
Your antivirus might still start on SafeMode, but then we can find the culprits a bit easier.
oh i know, im sure some other program and palemoon are not getting along, and it all started sometime around when palemoon went to version 19.
could be an update to another program that occured around the same time, could be something that changed in palemoon with version 19... could be a combination of the 2

wouldn't booting into safe mode be redundant? that just removes almost all other 3rd party apps from running which, if palemoon does run without problems still doesn't tell us anything we don't already know- that a 3rd party app and palemoon are not getting along?

as well, what about WOW64? think running the 32-bit version of palemoon instead of the 64-bit version be a useful step towards troubleshooting?

also, being that this is a new PC with new hardware and new associated software, and since the problem occurred on my old PC wouldn't it also stand to reason that the software conflict is a resident piece of software/shell extension that existed on both systems?...

megaman

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by megaman » 2013-08-08, 19:42

drivetheory wrote:wouldn't booting into safe mode be redundant? that just removes almost all other 3rd party apps from running which, if palemoon does run without problems still doesn't tell us anything we don't already know- that a 3rd party app and palemoon are not getting along?

as well, what about WOW64? think running the 32-bit version of palemoon instead of the 64-bit version be a useful step towards troubleshooting?

also, being that this is a new PC with new hardware and new associated software, and since the problem occurred on my old PC wouldn't it also stand to reason that the software conflict is a resident piece of software/shell extension that existed on both systems?...
We can pin-point programs that do start-up.
Coming from an old PC, you would know what programs run on a frequent basis.

Update your graphic drivers to the latest.
Test by disabling your antivirus, just to test for that moment.
Check programs that start-up, or any other security program.
Disable plugins or extensions.
Okay, you can try the Browser's Safe Mode, rather than to waste time restarting the PC.
Someone else might have information on this WOW64, I am running the 64-bit version and it doesn't show up on my Task Manager.

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 19:44

Moonchild wrote:I understand it's frustrating, but there has to be a reason that this occurs on your system. How quickly after dragging and dropping are you closing the browser session? Almost immediately? What if you drag and drop it to a regular folder instead of your desktop?

EDIT: since it's irregular, have you more extensively tested this with Firefox as well or not?

EDIT2: Did you make sure not to use any add-ons or plugins when testing?
the only frustration i have with any of this is my own ignorance of programming and my resulting inablity to resolve this problem myself, for this i sincerely apologize to you all. I am very grateful for all the troubleshooting ideas and help.

usually i drag-n-drop the shortcut, then close a couple seconds later, however long it takes to agree to overwriting the existing shortcut then moving the mouse to the X.

have not "extensively" tested this with firefox, but also never had this problem with firefox. (firefox always got sluggish when opened for too long and memory usage increased- thus prompting my switch to waterfox and then to palemoon 1.x years ago). i'll start testing this with firefox, but then i also wonder about the 32-bit/64-bit environment differences?

before posting on Jul 30, 2013 i had pretty thoroughly tested this problem by systematically removing installed addons 1 at a time (for about a week straight) until the problem went away or until i had disabled all the addons. when i finally got to the point where every single addon was disabled and palemoon hung for the first time with all addons disabled that is when i posted what i did on Jul 30, 2013.

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 19:55

just ran palemoon.exe -safe-mode.
checkmarked the box to disable addons, clicked restart button.
palemoon opened. saw addons were disabled, closed palemoon.
re-opened palemoon normally, dragged and dropped favicon from address bar to desktop (happen to be for homepage bing, which i like cause the background changes daily and sometimes they're even animated like a day or 2 ago) no need to overwrite cause there was no existing shortcut
closed palemoon
re-opened palemoon, nope, hung.
looked at procexp, lol, yup, there it is...

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 20:02

megaman wrote: Someone else might have information on this WOW64, I am running the 64-bit version and it doesn't show up on my Task Manager.
WOW64 is what allows you to run 32-bit apps in 64-bit windows...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

megaman

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by megaman » 2013-08-08, 20:04

I have tested your instructions and nothing happens regarding to hang.
I will get the 32-bit version to test, I am currently running 20.3 X64, so things would have changed.

Edit: I am probably not doing it right, as you do, but no hangs on the 32-bit either.
Also, no WOW64 on my Task Manager.

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 20:23

i just got Firefox 23 (x86) to hang the same way palemoon 20.2.1 (x64) does, using the same method of drag n drop url to desktop
megaman wrote:I have tested your instructions and nothing happens regarding to hang.
I will get the 32-bit version to test, I am currently running 20.3 X64, so things would have changed.

Edit: I am probably not doing it right, as you do, but no hangs on the 32-bit either.
Also, no WOW64 on my Task Manager.
you wouldn't see it in your task manager.
the place you'd see an explicit "WOW64" is %windir%\SysWOW64"
but i digress as it doesn't seem to be related in this case.

also, you probably won't get a hang since the problem is only happening on my PC, lol, im special like that in this particular instance

megaman

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by megaman » 2013-08-08, 20:30

drivetheory wrote:i just got Firefox 23 (x86) to hang the same way palemoon 20.2.1 (x64) does, using the same method of drag n drop url to desktop
also, you probably won't get a hang since the problem is only happening on my PC, lol, im special like that in this particular instance
Okay, so it is not only Palemoon, from here you need to report to the Mozilla team so they can fix it on their end.
I tested it, and since nothing like what you come across occurred, or many others that have tested in that matter, you have to start testing programs that are currently running on your system. Majority of the time it is a security program.

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 20:34

megaman wrote: Majority of the time it is a security program.
and this time it's not, which makes it all the more fun & exciting...

EDIT:
ran nirsoft shellexview, disabled all non microsoft shell extensions. (about 20)
testing with firefox.exe
will repost with results after process of elimination

EDIT 2:
rebooted system, shell extensions remained disabled (as expected)
drap n drop url tested firefox.exe
firefox hung after a 1/2 dozen tests...
attached shellexview screenshot of disabled extensions for the curious (even though disabling such didn't solve the problem)
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shellexview_disabled.PNG

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Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by Moonchild » 2013-08-08, 21:04

drivetheory wrote:wouldn't booting into safe mode be redundant? that just removes almost all other 3rd party apps from running which, if palemoon does run without problems still doesn't tell us anything we don't already know- that a 3rd party app and palemoon are not getting along?
No, it wouldn't. You seem to be adamant that it is a problem with Pale Moon but this kind of problem is almost always caused by other software. If the problem still occurs when you have booted into W

I checked your process monitor log and the shutdown there looks clean. Regular saving of prefs and all that, nothing out of order.
Although there's a LOT of chatter to the registry as well further up which I'm not sure should be happening... but it all depends on what you were doing as well.

Try using the 32-bit version, see if that helps. I know some 64-bit implementations of system software can be iffy, and it may be a potential cause.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

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Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by Moonchild » 2013-08-08, 21:06

If Firefox displays the same problem then definitely make this a bugzilla bug (post the bug from Firefox so they get the FF identifier) and let me know the bug number. 64-bit/32-bit will not be the issue then since FF is 32-bit.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

drivetheory

Re: Palemoon instability since v19

Unread post by drivetheory » 2013-08-08, 21:26

Moonchild wrote:You seem to be adamant that it is a problem with Pale Moon but this kind of problem is almost always caused by other software.
it's not that I'm adamant about it being a problem with pale moon, it's just that it's a problem that only seemed to affect pale moon (and firefox as well now that i've tested it)... still to this day I've never had this type problems with Opera (x64) or Chrome (x86), one of which (chrome) I have added plethora of addons and tweaks to and both of which i use on a daily basis as well. my apologies if i came off that way.

on a hunch i've terminated 1 pair of running processes, and re-enabled all shell extensions.

i have yet to have firefox or pale moon hang.

will post back after more testing

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