Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

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ascii_elite

Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by ascii_elite » 2015-01-29, 07:33

I request to have an option to open a hyperlink from a hyperlink's context menu. The option seems lacking in Pale Moon (and Firefox).

Since Firefox 4.0 or after, there is actually already a context menu item to open a link; it is labeled "Open Link" (English). The menu item, however, is (ironicallly) suppressed for hyperlinks. The "Open Link" context

I was initially pleased to see the addition of the "Open Link" menu item, but was later disappointed when I failed to find a way to un-suppress the menu item for hyperlinks while not un-supressing the menu item totally for all context menus. Intuitively, an option to open a link is the first option one might expect when viewing the context menu of a hyperlink, but it currently is not there at all.

I would propose that the "Open Link" menu item be unsuppressed for hyperlinks on Pale Moon.

The "Open Link" menu item is currently only un-suppressed on plain-text URLs (URL's protocol indication not necessarily withstanding). I have attached pictures of Pale Moon 25.1.0 illustrating the current implementation on hyperlinks and plain-text URLs. EDIT: Tab related items are not available in the Pale Moon instance for which the picture were taken; wherefore, pictures do not show tab-related options.
Demonstration of context menu for of hyperlinks in Pale Moon 25.1.0
Demonstration of context menu for of hyperlinks in Pale Moon 25.1.0
Demonstration of context menu for of selection of a plain-text URL in Pale Moon 25.1.0
Demonstration of context menu for of selection of a plain-text URL in Pale Moon 25.1.0

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2015-01-29, 07:45

Why exactly is this needed when you could just.. click the link?

x-15a2

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by x-15a2 » 2015-01-29, 10:18

why click twice, using 2 different buttons when a single click will do? I think that the reason that "Open Link" isn't provided is that it's unnecessary. I'm sure if you look you'll find an extension that does this.
Last edited by x-15a2 on 2015-02-03, 10:48, edited 1 time in total.

ascii_elite

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by ascii_elite » 2015-02-03, 04:15

Sorry for the delay; there is some clarification and explanation to come. I plan to update this thread within a few days when I have a good moment to do so.

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-02-03, 20:29

ascii_elite wrote:Sorry for the delay; there is some clarification and explanation to come. I plan to update this thread within a few days when I have a good moment to do so.
I sense an essay/rant incoming... ;-)
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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Night Wing » 2015-02-03, 20:32

Moonchild wrote:I sense an essay/rant incoming... ;-)
If and when it comes, I need to have a bag/bowl of popcorn ready for consumption. ;)
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Mercury

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Mercury » 2015-02-07, 01:09

It's about UI consistency. In Windows, the first item in a context menu should be the default action that results from a normal click. It may be redundant, but that's the proper design.

Also, in other browsers, I'd often do things like:
- Find a page with a bunch of interesting links
- RMB on link 1, open in background
- RMB on link 2, open in background
- RMB on link 3, open in background
- RMB on link 4, open in current window

Yes, for the last step I could have just left-clicked, but there's a pattern that has already been established and my brain follows it automatically. If the option to open the link in the current window isn't there, I often accidentally open the menu, have to hit Esc to close it, then left-click the link which throws me off.

FYI, I use https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... n-link-in/ which unfortunately does not do certain things quite as well as I'd like (The "Open Link Here" option isn't the first, and "Open Link in Background Window" is buggy), but at least it's something.

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-02-07, 11:32

It's not about UI consistency. But if you want to make it a point: Context menus should not have a redundant action listed as the top choice - you right-click to perform a different action than a left click; that is the whole point of having a context menu and two buttons on your mouse instead of one.
It should not list the default action for left-click. That fact that Windows explorer does this (and not, mistakenly interpreted, Windows) just makes explorer not follow proper UI design by being redundant, and on top, increasing the accuracy required to select the secondary action preferred in the context menu.

EDIT: by the way, if you want to do this faster, consider:
first 3 links: ctrl+click
4th link: normal click.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
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Mercury

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Mercury » 2015-02-07, 14:43

Open up the Bookmarks side panel in Pale Moon. Right-click on an individual bookmark.

What's the first option?

Game, set, and match. :D

ETA: Also, Ctrl+Click opens a tab. I want a window. "Open in Background Window" is one of the best things ever created, and was possibly the top reason why I held onto Opera for so long. (Opera allowed you to perform that action with Ctrl+Shift+Click; I still haven't found a way to do that in other browsers I've tried.)

I never really understood tabs. I already have a thing that allows me to switch between content - it's called the taskbar, and it comes with Windows. (And I have it placed at the top of the screen, so mouse distance isn't a issue.) Tabs are a redundant feature to me.
Last edited by Mercury on 2015-02-07, 14:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-02-07, 14:45

Mercury wrote:Open up the Bookmarks side panel in Pale Moon. Right-click on an individual bookmark.

What's the first option?

Game, set, and match. :D
Looks like I need to remove something there :)

Also, this is not a competition. being smug about finding an illogical option in Pale Moon does not a nice bugreport make.

EDIT: Sidebar UI design fixed, will be in Pale Moon 25.3. (Commit [0ee553f])
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Mercury

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Mercury » 2015-02-07, 14:58

I'm trying to throw in my opinion about how Pale Moon would work better for me. I'm being humorous, not hostile.

I know you receive a ton of complaints and entitled demands from users, and that's not pleasant. I thank you for making Pale Moon; I use it because it's the best browser for me. But it could still be better, and I'm just letting you know that OP's suggestion is something that I too would like, and the reasons why. He's not a lone loony; he's asking for something that a real group of users wants to see. If you don't do it, I'll be a little disappointed, but I understand.

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-02-07, 15:16

Open in new window is Shift+Click on a link.
It's the rule of thumb in Pale Moon for things that open: Ctrl for tab, Shift for window. (regular links, history sidebar, and bookmarks sidebar)
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-02-07, 15:22

Mercury wrote:I'm trying to throw in my opinion about how Pale Moon would work better for me. I'm being humorous, not hostile.
You'll have to excuse me if it comes across to me as hostile. Pointing out something, waiting for me to explain why it's not there, and then go "a-HAH! but in your own program you do it too! Checkmate!". Obviously a design bug that isn't even my doing, and inconsistency that is attributed to me while it was Mozilla's design team deciding this at some point. Sorry if I overreact to what is meant in good humor. :)

In any case, it's resolved now. There is no more redundant "Open" in the context menu of the sidebars.

As for it being there for selected text that is not a clickable link, it's there because plaintext has no left-click (default) action and it's not actually a hyperlink; being able to open selected text "as a link" is a convenience feature to shortcut having to copy and paste in the address bar -- and has nothing to do with actual clickable links in pages or bookmarks or history.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Mercury

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Mercury » 2015-02-07, 15:56

Moonchild wrote:In any case, it's resolved now. There is no more redundant "Open" in the context menu of the sidebars.
Um.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be unfriendly before but what you just did is a dickish move.

Not appreciated. :(

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-02-07, 16:00

Mercury wrote:
Moonchild wrote:In any case, it's resolved now. There is no more redundant "Open" in the context menu of the sidebars.
Um.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be unfriendly before but what you just did is a dickish move.
Not appreciated. :(
Um.
What I did was following up on what was pointed out. having "Open" in those context menus is redundant and that is a design bug.
See my explanation before as to why it shouldn't be there.

It was not removed because of some personal grudge or whatever.
It was removed because having "Open" as the top and default choice in the context menu is wrong, because it already is the default action for clicking it.

EDIT:
To clarify the logic, once more:
  • Your main action for an element (link, bookmark, history item, etc) is performed by using your primary button (left-click for mice, tap for touch)
  • Alternative actions for an element are performed from the context menu using your secondary button (right-click for mice, tap-hold (or similar) for touch)
  • It makes no sense for the list of alternative actions to include the primary action as well, and as default to boot (meaning default primary action = default alternative action).
  • This makes "Open" in the context menu non-sensical and should be removed, to be replaced with the most commonly desired alternative action as default. Considering by far most Pale Moon users use tabbed browsing, the new default secondary action is "Open in new tab"
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

sIDcORK

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by sIDcORK » 2015-02-07, 18:15

Isn't Middle clicking a link the easiest way to open a link in either a new tab or window? browser.tabs.opentabfor.middleclick to true for a tab and false for a window

SvenG

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by SvenG » 2015-02-07, 18:44

sIDcORK wrote:Isn't Middle clicking a link the easiest way to open a link in either a new tab or window?
Depends on the device you are on. On Laptops that can only emulate middle click it can be PITA. Also some mice really have a lousy middle mouse button (which is not necessarily a question of the prize).

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by CraigPD » 2015-02-07, 22:01

Moonchild wrote:It was not removed because of some personal grudge or whatever.
It was removed because having "Open" as the top and default choice in the context menu is wrong, because it already is the default action for clicking it.
There's no absolute consistency here and I don't think it was entirely the result of bad design. Please don't over-cerebralize this case, making work where it isn't necessary and use your limited time and resources to tackle more worthy endeavors. Context menus in Bookmarks and History sidebars and Menu bar dropdowns act different than web page hyperlinks. So what!?!

Many times using context menus on these program control elements the additional Open option can be a beneficial alternative to instinctively (mindlessly) left-clicking page hyperlinks. Often it occurs to me when using these context menus that opening something in the same tab may have actually been the preferable action, but if that's not an option one needs to clear context (click away) and return to left click to execute. The fact that Open is (1) emboldened and (2) the top choice brings attention that it was the primary action, sort of a visual training queue, while retaining a greater flexibility of choice - that's the key.

There's nothing causing incapacity here. So my vote is for inertia. And everyone knows "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

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Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-02-08, 00:40

In the large scheme of things, front-end work is quick and easy to do. It's not "over-cerebralizing", at all, and either way the context menu in both the bookmarks and history sidebar/menu is a context menu on links and elements that are a direct link to a page. The elements are not "nondescript" and the primary action is clear by its very nature and listing, that the left-click action doesn't need any visual clues or clarification.

There might be nothing causing incapacity, but there's also nothing logical about having "Open" there, either, and it requires normal alternative actions to be carefully selected, which reduces comfort (you don't have to move the pointer for the default action, but you do for any other) - especially on touchpads this can be a big hindrance if you always have to move the pointer one selection down because, yes, you did indeed call up the context menu for something OTHER than the primary action. The situation you indicate is when the user changes their mind between right-clicking and wanting to click an option...?

I'll be more than happy to cast this up for a vote, if you people insist, but it has to be one way or another, then - either have the primary action everywhere as the top listing in the context menu, or nowhere, because otherwise it's just not consistent.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Mercury

Re: Context Menu Item to Open Hyperlinks

Unread post by Mercury » 2015-02-08, 01:21

Look, this shouldn't be personal, I know that, but... I pointed out something I liked, and the developer's response was to remove it. No matter the justification, that stings, you know?

Anyway:

I like the idea of having the default action be the first in the menu, and bolded. It really seems like the right way and has been the standard since around the Win95 days. Maybe it's just inertia and I've gotten used to it. With new touchy interfaces and MS changing their design guidelines, it may not be current way of doing things. "Open" is still the first option in context menus in IE11 (which I'm sure a snarky few will take as evidence to not do it that way), so I don't really know.

It's not worth getting into a war over, in any case.

Moonchild, do what you truly believe will benefit your users most. I will continue to use Pale Moon for the foreseeable future.
Off-topic:
I still want a proper "Open Link in Background Window" option though... the extension kinda works but does things in a clearly awkward way (using event listeners for when the window gets focus and removing them on a timer) that doesn't always work. There is no keyboard shortcut for this action.

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