An alternative dual GUID method

[Mercury]

This not possible.

This statement is clearly false. It is possible. Whether it is a good idea or not does not change the fact that it is possible.

These kinds of blunt shut-downs relying on incorrect information make it more difficult to believe other, potentially true statements coming from the same source. Trust is hard-won, and easily lost. Please don't do this.

while it will also be possible to write pale moon specific extensions (which I assume is tehreason that the new GUID was introduced).

While my understanding is not perfect, what I have gleaned form the various FAQs and announcements is that the new GUID has multiple reasons behind it. But doing the GUID-swap you've essentially reverted Pale Moon back to being a flavour of Firefox, and undone all the advantages, present and future, it brings. The main thrust behind the new GUID is the statement that Pale Moon is not Firefox. Your "fix" is for Pale Moon to continue to claim that it is Firefox.

While it is arguable (and has been, and no doubt will continue to be, argued) that the old approach might be better and produce a more functional product, it is not the approach Moonchild et al. have decided on. Your solution won't be accepted because it is effectively a reversion of what has been done.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

It is not possible to do what he wants in a safe, predictable, and reliable way because of the way GUIDs are used in the program. Having the Firefox one being primary and the Pale Moon one being secondary is just a reversal in the same situation we have now. (Plus all the all the reasons we wanted to proceed with this change being completely ignored and made irrelevant) Let me clue you in on something.. IF we could have the manifest parser that deals with XUL overlays could be changed to accept the firefox guid and apply overlays as if this was Firefox was possible and accept the native app guid.. we would have done it.. In fact we did try to do it. The code is not accepting of this and the work had to be abandoned. The most we can do without rewriting massive amounts of the code deep at the core of how mozilla based programs are constructed and function (which could render this entire situation moot as it would be a fundamental change that would break complete compatibility at more than just the surface level we have now) is what we HAVE done.

So yeah i guess not being possible is not a black and white truth but it is a feasible truth.. It is not feasibly possible to do what he wants and as for the rest we simply aren't going to for reasons given elsewhere. You can have the ability to use Firefox add-ons that install and function if passing the install check is the only limiting factor here OR you can have NO firefox add-ons function. That is your choice as far as Pale Moon is concerned and we have chosen the former.

But this is a community project so if you can find a solution to allow us to have our unique guid and accept the firefox guid for xul overlays and not entirely blow up the parser then patches welcome.

[DAOWAce]

Limiting myself to the technical side, I just logged in to report that I finished building the version of pale moon with the two GUIDs swapped, as I mentioned in my previous post, and it worked!

I'd take it.

I could've switched to Palemoon prior to this change, but now I can't since I use ABP, Greasemonkey, Stylish and some other misc addons.. and Stylish is barely functional now + other things I can't remember. I don't have the technical knowledge of the browsers to check compatibility with everything else, so I've just opted to sit and wait for a solution to this issue (more than 'use this forked version') rather than risk it. I don't quite need it right now anyway.. maybe when a firefox version is released that actually supports web standards (HTML5) and palemoon is built from it, but until then I'm fine using v28, the last FF version with a non-terrible UI. (Well, I said this back when FF4 was released, but Australis is irredeemable.)

[SvenG]

and Stylish is barely functional now

Nope, Stylish is full functional, just has two icons in about:addons. Also the next version of Stylish which is already available as a beta will come with Pale Moon support added..

[dark_moon]

Stylish is full functional, just has two icons in about:addons.

Add this in your userchrome to fix the two icons bug:

Code: Select all

#category-userstyles {display:none !important}

[DAOWAce]

Nope, Stylish is full functional, just has two icons in about:addons. Also the next version of Stylish which is already available as a beta will come with Pale Moon support added..

Hm, maybe it was Greasemonkey then?

I tested it a few weeks ago on another OS install where I replaced IE with PM. I just remember something barely being functional.

ABP doesn't have its tools menu, which I used relatively often, but this is a known issue. (latest PM version is older than the official one too)

I also use Screengrab, and used to use a few other addons (findbar tweak, HTTPS everywhere, nightly tester tools), but disabled or removed them.

Good to hear some addons are finally coming out with proper PM support. Hopefully things will be better when the next Firefox version is released with proper HTML5 support (60FPS Youtube) and PM is built from it (though considering the issue with MSE, I question how long it will take), as once that happens, I'll probably be switching over once and for all.

Add this in your userchrome to fix the two icons bug:

Code: Select all

#category-userstyles {display:none !important}

I added it as a new stylish style, works just fine! Thanks.

[Sajadi]

Hopefully things will be better when the next Firefox version is released with proper HTML5 support (60FPS Youtube) and PM is built from it

Seems you have missed something important! Moonchild has stated that Firefox and Pale Moon go different ways now, so do not expect that Pale Moon's engine is completely exchanged against one of those later unstable codebases for the near future. Instead as it was earlier done, carefully choosen features which make sense and and security patches will be brought over from later Gecko Engines to Pale Moon.

When or if there is ever again a full engine switch, only our great developer does know. And as long as things work out fluid that way, switching to a more unstable Australis codebase, where it is not known at all if it is possible to keep it running with Australis patched out would be a true madness!

[Moonchild]

To address some concerns in this thread:

• A program can only have one GUID. The "dual-GUID" setup applies to providing compatibility for a second application GUID in the installation and handling of XPIs. That does not mean that the application suddenly has 2 GUIDs.
• Pale Moon should not continue carrying the Firefox GUID, because it is, in all respects, completely split off now. Maintaining the Firefox GUID is not only bad from a technological point of view (even though it does cause some issues becoming a "new application" from an extension point of view) but also causes confusion as to the state of the browser and the project as a whole. Yes, this is a big deal.
• Swapping the GUIDs is of course going to compile, but what you are doing then is building yet another "Firefox-identified clone" like Pale Moon's state was before 25.0 - but then with the added possibility to install Pale Moon extensions (that are likely not going to work in the same way that specifically Firefox targeted extensions don't work). What would be the point of even making such a build, apart from not wanting to accept this necessary change?
• Of course it is theoretically possible to implement any sort of multi-GUID system you can think up. Any. The sky is the limit.
  But theory and practice are two completely different things, here. So, in a practical sense, it is not possible, and that is what Tobin meant. If you are familiar with how any Mozilla-based application is built, you would understand that it's simply not at all feasible to go in and change things around. There's literally years of coding between single GUID core and multi-GUID core because you'd have to completely rewrite the basic structure of the core and the elaborate security measures in place for components, interfaces and wrappers... And for what? Just to satisfy the extensions that are focusing on the rapid release constantly tweaked and increasingly incompatible Firefox features? That really is too great a cost for no return.

[Supernova]

ABP doesn't have its tools menu, which I used relatively often, but this is a known issue. (latest PM version is older than the official one too)

I also use Screengrab, and used to use a few other addons (findbar tweak, HTTPS everywhere, nightly tester tools), but disabled or removed them.

ABP ; screengrab & findbar tweak have adapted versions for Pale Moon.

[Grail Knight]

Stylish is full functional, just has two icons in about:addons.

Add this in your userchrome to fix the two icons bug:

Code: Select all

#category-userstyles {display:none !important}

I used a fix similar to the one for AdblockEdge 2.16 to fix Stylish.

Open (Do not unzip) up Stylish using 7zip of similar and drag the chrome.manifest to the desktop and open in notepad.

Search for all instances of ec8030f7-c20a-464f-9b0e-13a3a9e97384 and replace them with 8de7fcbb-c55c-4fbe-bfc5-fc555c87dbc4

Save the file and then drag it back into Stylish.

Reinstall Stylish in PaleMoon and it should solve the double button in the addons manager.

[11ryanc]

and Stylish is barely functional now

Nope, Stylish is full functional, just has two icons in about:addons. Also the next version of Stylish which is already available as a beta will come with Pale Moon support added..

Off-topic:

Using a workaround for duplicate Addons-manager icon, yes all appears to be in working order. Curious as to where you heard that they will be, officially supporting Pale Moon though? Mind linking me to source? I have the developer version installed and it still holds the same icon bug.

[SvenG]

Using a workaround for duplicate Addons-manager icon, yes all appears to be in working order. Curious as to where you heard that they will be, officially supporting Pale Moon though? Mind linking me to source? I have the developer version installed and it still holds the same icon bug.

https://forum.userstyles.org/discussion/44032/

Changes from 1.4.3 to 2.0.0b1
[ ... ]
* Fix Stylish in Pale Moon 25

And that version has only one icon in about:addons, haven't checked the never ones but I think Jason won't fix something just to break it. And so do the following ones.