Don't remove about: anything

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Starchild

Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by Starchild » 2014-05-09, 00:15

I know it sounds weird, but the first time I saw I could just memorize about: addresses to access preferences, downloads and addons, it made using the browser that much easier for me (mostly because I'm a console whore and don't find using it as masochistic a task as some).

Some people may want windows for everything. If that's the way Pale Moon wants to go, at the very least include an option to revert it via an extension (like tab groups). But I like how it currently is because I don't need to clutter my already-neat taskbar with icons for everything, so long I remember the about: address for what I want to see. It's weird that I don't readily remember the keyboard shortcuts for everything off-hand, but I like having everything in a tab because I find it more convenient. Further I see no reason to alienate the present Firefox userland more with reverting to older UI decisions that made sense when people were transitioning from a single-document browser to a multi-document browser.

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Re: Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-05-09, 01:48

I'm assuming you are specifically talking about the about:preferences here from a different recent thread.
You have to realize that about:preferences is not complete, and there is no intention to work on it to make and keep it on-par with the preferences dialog box - when you use in-content preferences, you're missing out on a chunk of configurability added to the range of Firefox options presented there. Compare it with the actual preferences dialog and see what I mean. If you want to throw things on logic, then half of the about: pages don't make sense to be called "about".

In general I would agree with there being no need to remove features that are present and give people a choice - but that agreement quickly changes when the feature in question is incomplete, unwieldy, not intended as being part of Pale Moon, completely redundant, and/or underused.

Dialog boxes make a lot of sense, regardless of SDI/MDI or tabbed interfaces. Why? Because just like a standard application menu, dialog boxes are a standard UI convention. Every application uses them for when there is a dialogue between program and user (hence the name). It follows a set, well-defined pattern with a set of predictable actions and a predictable result.
In addition to dialog boxes being standard, in-content preferences have a few usability issues: When using a tab instead of a dialog box, are you sure your settings are saved? When are they saved? What if it's changed immediately and you didn't intend to make that change? Oops, already saved the moment you checked that box; no way to cancel out of your dialogue... :P

As for your personal like or dislike of controls in your UI - "options" falls in the "rarely used" category. To access rarely used functions, you can at all times call up the (also standard convention) application menu by hitting Alt on your keyboard and a few more keystrokes to navigate the menu (tap Alt, tap T for Tools, tap O for Options, and you're there! Without needing to remember a function key or key combo. It's all visually available as well in case you forget (underlined hotkeys for menus and entries)) -- even if you've removed all other controls from your UI. There is no need to have a permanent control for the Options on your screen if about:preferences was to be removed and you would lose access to it that way.

Unlike Tab Groups, there is also no incentive to make an add-on out of it, because the functionality is still present in the browser in its intended (and more complete) form.

In addition, Pale Moon is a GUI application for graphical operating systems, and it will have windows by design. Yes, you can navigate around entirely with the keyboard if you wish, but that's not its primary design goal.

I guess I've over-stated things here, sorry. Forgive the essay.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Supernova

Re: Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by Supernova » 2014-05-09, 01:59

Moonchild wrote:In general I would agree with there being no need to remove features that are present and give people a choice - but that agreement quickly changes when the feature in question is incomplete, unwieldy, not intended as being part of Pale Moon, completely redundant, and/or underused.
While more of you reason seems good, be cautious with the last one. After all, it's because some features were judged underused that mozilla dev found wise to remove them in ff29. Of course an overused feature won't be removed, so it's something needed, but their should be serious issues aside.

Starchild

Re: Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by Starchild » 2014-05-09, 03:03

I took a quick glance at it, and yeah, i see what you mean. It's weird, though; Why couldn't the dialog box content have been recycled for about:preferences and have changes for the dialog box reflect in that page instead of maintaining two sets of the same stuff at once? IN hindsight I guess I was a little overly-childish about the issue. Now it makes me wonder fi I could access the dialog box content from the browser and make it look all pretty with some fancy CSS...

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2014-05-09, 04:17

Starchild wrote:I took a quick glance at it, and yeah, i see what you mean. It's weird, though; Why couldn't the dialog box content have been recycled for about:preferences and have changes for the dialog box reflect in that page instead of maintaining two sets of the same stuff at once?
Namely that will likely replace the options dialog in Firefox.

jumba

Re: Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by jumba » 2014-05-09, 08:43

What about the other about: pages?
about:addons - used to be its own dialog, but was replaced with the incontent page.
about:downloads - exists too, but is it used?
Starchild wrote:Now it makes me wonder fi I could access the dialog box content from the browser and make it look all pretty with some fancy CSS...
From the menu of course, but if you are looking a way with keyboard, use ALT+T(ools) and then O(ptions).
On linux, it's not that memorable: ALT+E(dit) + (Prefere)N(ces) :problem:

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Re: Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by Moonchild » 2014-05-09, 11:13

Supernova wrote:be cautious with the last one.
Trust me, I am. If I say "underused" I basically mean "Most people don't even know it exists". It'll never be a single determining factor.
jumba wrote:What about the other about: pages?
about:addons - used to be its own dialog, but was replaced with the incontent page.
About:addons properly uses the available screen space in a tab, and benefits from it.
about:downloads - exists too, but is it used?
Private browsing windows use this, to keep things grouped in the window. Makes sense there as well.
Starchild wrote:Why couldn't the dialog box content have been recycled for about:preferences and have changes for the dialog box reflect in that page instead of maintaining two sets of the same stuff at once?
Plainly put: It's written in a different language. Dialog boxes and other native UI elements are written in XUL. about: in-content pages are written in (X)HTML. You can't just recycle content between those with some "magic" because the language intent is completely different, even though the languages are loosely related by both being markup languages. On top, they run in different namespaces.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Don't remove about: anything

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2014-06-22, 03:43

Just a note: We have removed about:preferences on trunk and the change will be reflected when 24.7 is released in the future, this will in no way impact the normal options dialog available from Tools > Options.

See commit: https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/Pale-Moon/commit/87574762bd9e1b4f8dd155ac2740e208872002d4

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