Make "Automatically Install Updates" more streamlined

[__NM64__]

Currently if you set Pale Moon to "Automatically Install Updates", it reacts the same way as if you had selected "Check for updates, but let me choose whether to install them". In particularly, it requires the user to click through 2-3 prompts, which isn't exactly what I would call "Automatic". I would think that if the user had selected "Automatically Install Updates" in their browser options that they would want a more streamlined update process.

Now I understand that one of Pale Moon's priorities is to not update in the background without the user's consent, and I support that.

Basically, all I want to suggest is to just simplify the update process to just 1 prompt when/if the user selects to "Automatically Install Updates".


Personally I imagine something like the following:

Have the browser automatically bring up the "Update Available" window with the options of [Ask me later] and [Get the New Version]. If the user selects [Get the New Version], it'll automatically hide the update prompt and start downloading in the background and the new version will be installed when the browser is opened the next time.

If the user selects [Ask me later], the browser will ask again when the user closes the last browser window and in the future will also ask when the last Pale Moon window is closed (I would think asking when the browser first starts up could be a bit nag-y for if a user is trying to just quickly look something up).

[Moonchild]

You may want to enable "app.update.silent" in that case (set the preference to "true") - that will suppress any and all update prompts.

Automatically install as selected in Options should already download and install the update automatically in very much the same way you indicate.
However, you may be warned in that case if you have a session running for a very long time (It will notify you that it should be updated instead of continuing to run the current version).

[__NM64__]

Automatically install as selected in Options should already download and install the update automatically in very much the same way you indicate.

Well it doesn't. Like I said, it reacts the same way as if I selected "Check for updates, but let me choose whether to install them"

Or are you saying that's with 'app.update.silent' set to 'true'?

[Moonchild]

I'll have to have a look. Might be a bug, in that case. Or maybe MozCo has made a change so it relies solely on the maintenance service (which I don't use in Pale Moon) for automatic updates, meaning I have to revert that behavior.

[__NM64__]

Well I'm testing with Pale Moon Portable since it's much easier to test version updating with it (have old browser version, copy & paste, update, delete folder, rinse & repeat). Would that make any difference?

Also the impression you're giving me is that 'app.update.silent' makes it truly silent similarly to what Firefox does. I wasn't looking for that.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

I'll have to have a look. Might be a bug, in that case. Or maybe MozCo has made a change so it relies solely on the maintenance service (which I don't use in Pale Moon) for automatic updates, meaning I have to revert that behavior.

I am rather sure that the silent automatic updates require the maintenance service.

If the service can't be started, is disabled, or does not exist, Firefox will execute updater.exe as it used to without the service.

from: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Windows_Service_Silent_Update

But hey! I may be wrong.

[__NM64__]

I am rather sure that the silent automatic updates require the maintenance service.

It was my understanding that, in Pale Moon, "Automatic Updates" and "silent updates" were two different things.

[Moonchild]

Since you guys were too fast before I made the edit to my previous post:

Try setting app.update.service.enabled to false (you'll have to make a new boolean pref) to explicitly disable use of the service, and see if that helps?

[Moonchild]

Also, if you are going to the about box to start the update, then you will always get the prompts. How are you kicking the update process into gear?

[__NM64__]

I would do the following:

1. go to http://news.google.com
2. type in tesla and hit enter
3. type in spacex and hit enter
4. scroll down a bit
5. wait
6. update notification appears in 5-10 minutes

EDIT: Just got the notification, and no, setting app.update.service.enabled to false does not change anything.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

BTW, according to bugzilla app.update.silent basically disables all prompts for updates which essentially disables automatic update checking. Ugh I hate bugzilla surfing.
Sorry I was not more help.

Also Personally? I use an extension called "Check for Updates in Help Menu" to invoke the old check for updates UI from the help menu.

[__NM64__]

I just got the notification using the process I detailed in my previous post.

So no, setting app.update.service.enabled to false does not change anything.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Ok. Did some more bugzilla surfing. Seems app.update.auto and app.update.silent have to be true. However it may have not been completely fixed until after 24/24ESR also it VERY well MAY have to use the service to be completely transparent to the end user (ie no UAC prompt or anything). Again I am not entirely sure but that is what I gather from bugzilla.

As for app.update.service.enabled that is irrelevant because the update.exe checks to see if it is there or not. If not it will fallback.

[Moonchild]

I suggested app.update.service.enabled in case there was a bug in the detection routine, and the pref would short-circuit the checking function.

[Moonchild]

I looked at it some more, it may not work this way for the portable, since it won't have a designated staging location to autostart the update from upon browser launch. I did verify that that it does download the update automatically in portable mode and you can apply it from the about box.
Of note: you will always get a desktop notification pop-up unless you enable "silent" - that's by design, to alert people there is an update and give them the option to install right away.

[__NM64__]

I did verify that that it does download the update automatically in portable mode and you can apply it from the about box.

OK, that may work for me, but part of the entire reason I brought up this subject is that I'm transitioning my less tech-savvy father over to Pale Moon since Australis has hit release Firefox and should be hitting Firefox ESR in a couple months.

You see, my father goes on business trips semi-frequently so he has a flash drive with Portable Firefox ESR on it (he likes to keep his personal web browsing off of the company laptops) which I had upgraded to Pale Moon Portable for his next trip in a few weeks, so I can't really use the installation version of Pale Moon here.

[Moonchild]

If it's just for business trips, you can always make sure he has the latest version of the portable browser available before he leaves. And Your father should be able to understand the interactive update process? You could always just walk him through it, in case the updater pops up while he's on the road? It's not exactly rocket science, I think. Even for a non-tech person it's good to know what is going on on their system. Awareness goes a long way to solve issues if they pop up. "It stopped working after I updated" is a lot more helpful and less frustrating than "It suddenly stopped working today and I don't know what happened".

As an aside, and something you should consider: updating system-critical software over untrusted networks isn't exactly a good idea. Business trips will likely mean using Open WiFi at airports and hotels, potentially unsecure or hijacked internet connectivity, etc. Having silent/background updates in those environments is a risk. It's better to leave the updating of critical software to a time you can do this in networking environments you trust.

[__NM64__]

I just realized I completely left out the part where my father will use that even within his workplace, again because he likes to keep his personal stuff off of the company computer. EDIT: Well, at least I THINK he uses it, I'd be surprised if he doesn't. I'll have to ask him to make sure.

Anyway, he's not adverse to clicking through prompts, but he usually doesn't like the hassle of it getting in the way of what he's doing - hence why I suggested the single-prompt update mechanic. One thing is that it's very common for him to click once through it but as soon as he sees that it involves more promps he'll, in his words, "kill it".

But even then, I personally would still prefer such a single-prompt update method because I'll probably also put Pale Moon on my parents' home computer as well due to the Australis thing, and my mother is even less tech-savvy than my father. However you claim that the "Automatic Updates" works correctly with non-portable Pale Moon...I suppose I will have to test that.

[__NM64__]

Apologies for the double-post, but I just tested in normal non-portable Pale Moon and "Automatically Install Updates" still reacts the same way as if you had selected "Check for updates, but let me choose whether to install them".

For reference I tested with a newly-installed stock configuration (other than the update setting and the addon "Restartless Restart") of the following running in Sandboxie:
http://relmirror.palemoon.org/release/p ... taller.exe

[Moonchild]

Hmm.. might be a bug, then. I guess it's because I mark most updates as "major" updates because most people want the extra prompts and confirmation (which you won't get otherwise). I'll have to have a poke at the update manager to see if I can figure out why it ignores auto update settings, and adjust accordingly if so. I haven't really touched the updater so it's as-supplied in the Firefox code base, and it did work before, so it must have regressed.

EDIT: It may actually be a problem with the update XML files. I'll have to investigate. Problem with server-dependent features not being properly documented.

EDIT2: Yup, server-side problem due to bad documentation. I'll update the XML files and that should fix the automatic updates.