Can we have a Chromium based Palemoon please I beg you

[dark_moon]

Total agree with megaman.
Vote for /closed

[Moonchild]

Heh, if for nothing else, I'm not building a Chromium-based browser because of the following requirement:
http://www.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/api-keys

A definite no-go on this.

[jumba]

I am begging you because I moved to Palemoon x64 from the old Opera and then went back to Opera when the new browser came as it is smooth and worked well until now.

, old Opera < PMx64 < new Opera(but it has flaws, like customizability?)

It seems that webkit has more limits to the possibilities of extensions and customization, then it is not the solution to your problem.

but that Gecko engine is just dire for serious and fast needs.

Personally, I don't find chromium/chrome any faster nor smoother than Pale Moon when I've had to work on them. I would think that Chrome is also heavier browser than a gecko based, but I'm not sure. Sure there are light weight webkit browsers, midori, qupzilla, etc. but they lack functionality that most want.

I would still be using Palemoon otherwise, it handles lots of tabs well but not as good as Opera, I've had 266 open with extensive sites on Opera and I can get the hundred figure with Palemoon.

Some up to date resource usage tests would be great, but gecko has often ranked well and even as the best on that aspect.

I was not keen on Palemoon x64s tab menu where you have to scroll either. I wish I could code, I'd make the best browser around to suit power users and real needs.

Can you elaborate your needs more? Obviously, the horizontal tab bar isn't for you. Have you tried to look up for an extension that fills your need? e.g. I'm using the Tree Style Tab extension, which I've found to be great! Is there a webkit browser with vertical tab bar, I don't think so?

@Moonchild
Could it be possible to have a browser that uses webkit + XUL? Might be a silly question!
More like; is it possible to have a webkit browser that is as customizable as gecko browser?

[megaman]

More like; is it possible to have a webkit browser that is as customizable as gecko browser?

I would say that it should be. The only reason the popular ones aren't customizable is because they(You know who "they" is?) think that their designs are fit, without needing necessary changes.

[eskaton]

Not to be pedantic, but hasn't Chrome/Chromium used blink and not webkit for nearly a year now? And Opera followed suit sometime after, IIRC.

[megaman]

Not to be pedantic, but hasn't Chrome/Chromium used blink and not webkit for nearly a year now? And Opera followed suit sometime after, IIRC.

Blink is WebKit.

[eskaton]

Blink is WebKit.

Well, a fork of Webkit. LibreOffice and OpenOffice are two distinct things at this point, and one is a fork of the other.

[2tuff]

I think Chromium uses the Webkit engine if I'm not mistaken and if I'm correct, I think he wants Pale Moon to be based on Webkit instead of Gecko.

But, if a Webkit Pale Moon ever came to pass and it LOOKED like Chromium, I wouldn't use it since I don't like the Chromium look which reminds me of the Australis UI which Firefox will be going to in version 29.

Do you honestly think Firefox or even Palemoon look good? Without a nice theme they do not look nice at all and disappoint. I re-installed Palemoon x64 but I was disappointed with the look of icons and extension icons etc compared to Opera 20. I am willing to give Palemoon x64 a try again but the first time I feel any clunky feelings then I will end up on Opera again until something else comes out. I do not like the Chrome browser tab menu style and I did like the Sleipnir version which is nice but needs to be able to be tweaked. Why couldn't Moonchild create a chrome browser that looks different? I've seen chromium based browsers looking different and then there are the lazy ones which do not. Sleipnir has potential but its font is absolute terrible and yet they brag about fonts on their website, it does not come close to Operas. Right now I am using Iceweasel on a live USB of Crunchbang 11 but when I use Windows which is more often I use Opera and then Maxthon for videos.

[2tuff]

Pale Moon is Gecko-based.

I will not change this and make the same mistake Opera did by becoming "yet another webkit-based browser". There are already too many browsers basing themselves on the (much heavier and less customizable) chrome engine. I also like to continue to offer the extensibility of Gecko (add-ons) that would not be possible in a Chrome-based browser.

If I find the time I may make an experimental chrome build with optimizations, but it's extremely low priority.

Moonchild,

Thanks for a speedy reply but I have seen a lot of firefox clones just like there are a lot of Chromium clones. You say the engine is heavy and I do not know about this because I am not a coder (UNFORTUNATELY as I'd make the best browser out there and wipe the smile off all of them) but the fact is that chromium is superior for speed and performance, which shows in both how the user feels his browser and also the benchmarks. I love the Opera browser but I just got so angry that even there new stable version has suddenly started hammering the processor. I probably would have switched to Sleipnir but the font drove me up the wall and especially after they were bragging about it too, I wanted more control over where tabs opened in the tab area on Sleipnir and the extensions didn't seem in flow and part of the browser like a lot of chrome addons, Opera's versions do seem to work well with the browser. I am disappointed you have no interest in doing a chrome browser because I did like your browser. I have installed the x64 install version again and I was going to give it a go again but I keep getting the calling to Opera because it is so far and smooth for browsing actions for most of my needs but some just niggle me. I would say Firefox is more compatible with the web than chrome. It is a shame that the old Presto and Opera were getting a bit slow, thats why I moved to your browser in the first place and enjoyed the experience until I felt the speed of the next Opera.

thanks

[2tuff]

Good to know because I really like the customization "within" the Gecko based Pale Moon browser. The Gecko add-ons are a very nice bonus too.

I am puzzled by your comments because last night when I decided to try Palemoon x64 again I looked through the extensions and I was disappointed by the lack of important and some less important extensions that I get on Opera and what are on Chrome. What I got in place if anything didn't feel as good! So I do not think Gecko is the superior browser for extensions and quality any longer. At one time Gecko was the only one with extensions then Opera and Chrome copied but sucked and now Chrome dominates in my opinion but I am not tunnel visioned and I can move to different systems if I believe they are better, I will not stay with a brand or name just because they were good in the past, its called being open-minded.

[2tuff]

Palemoon offers more in a tiny package, in comparison:
It's lighter in size(MegaBytes) than Chrome or Firefox.
It's faster.
It's customizable.
It's aimed with the user in mind.
It's updated.
It's just that darn good. No real need for another Chrone or Clome(Chrome Clone).

I disagree and so do the benchmarks as well as the feel of a good chromium based browser. I dare you guys to use Opera 20, Next or Developer and find out how much smoother and faster the browser is compared to Palemoon x64. I will say that Palemoon is the best Gecko based browser for speed and feel but it still lags in comparison. Look I do a lot of work in my browser, I test a browser to its limits. I regularly have over a hundred tabs open at one time on extensive sites, Opera handles this with ease, Maxthon dies with just a few sometimes even two open, Palemoon handles a lot but not as good as Opera. I have been known to have 266 tabs open, now is that pushing a browser or not? Opera handled 266 hardcore tabs with ease, what other browser can do this? So be open-minded because sticking with brand and names isn't wise and will destroy improvement and innovation. Do I like the fact that Google made the best browsing engine for performance and use? No I detest Google but I will use there system as long as thre is no big brother or censorship so with Opera that is what I did. I like how people keep harping on that there is a lot of chrome clones, well there are a lot of mozilla clones too but why are there a lot of chrome clones? It is because the engine is so good at performance. Do you honestly think Opera would choose something lame if they were dropping their Presto? It would have been totally pointless for Opera to go to Gecko after dropping Presto, but Chromium was the obvious choice for sheer performance and decent compatibility.

[jumba]

Do you honestly think Firefox or even Palemoon look good?

I have no idea by what do you mean "by browser looking good", but yes I like how my pale moon looks. I can't stand over themed browsers. Theme has nothing to offer, just useless eye candy, that is at the same time annoying and gets in to my way, like effects/animations etc.

Right now I am using Iceweasel on a live USB of Crunchbang 11 but when I use Windows which is more often I use Opera and then Maxthon for videos.

There is a PM build for linux too!

the fact is that chromium is superior for speed and performance, which shows in both how the user feels his browser and also the benchmarks.

Like I said I don't have this "feeling", and benchmarks are meaningless.

I looked through the extensions and I was disappointed by the lack of important and some less important extensions that I get on Opera and what are on Chrome.

Which extensions are you talking about?

Do you honestly think Opera would choose something lame if they were dropping their Presto?

Oh god, YES! They destroyed their browser, dropped all functionality, forced users to "move along" or change, killed their fan base and dropped services. All for over some lame easy solution to use the "fast and superior" webkit blink, what ever. Was that really worth it?

[2tuff]

Do you honestly think Firefox or even Palemoon look good?

I have no idea by what do you mean "by browser looking good", but yes I like how my pale moon looks. I can't stand over themed browsers. Theme has nothing to offer, just useless eye candy, that is at the same time annoying and gets in to my way, like effects/animations etc.

Right now I am using Iceweasel on a live USB of Crunchbang 11 but when I use Windows which is more often I use Opera and then Maxthon for videos.

There is a PM build for linux too!

the fact is that chromium is superior for speed and performance, which shows in both how the user feels his browser and also the benchmarks.

Like I said I don't have this "feeling", and benchmarks are meaningless.

I looked through the extensions and I was disappointed by the lack of important and some less important extensions that I get on Opera and what are on Chrome.

Which extensions are you talking about?

Do you honestly think Opera would choose something lame if they were dropping their Presto?

Oh god, YES! They destroyed their browser, dropped all functionality, forced users to "move along" or change, killed their fan base and dropped services. All for over some lame easy solution to use the "fast and superior" webkit blink, what ever. Was that really worth it?

Firefox browsers have a vile look about them such as the icons as I said and that is without a them and minimal. If you want a pleasant stripped down browser look then Opera is most definitely your man. You talk about useless eyecandy but I think it is nice to have something you use a lot looking nice and well layed out as needed. When I have complained about Palemoon tab menu its because I do not like having to scroll through tabs left to right, I want the tab on the screen just to click once like in Opera even if it is small through having numerous tabs open. One of biggest hates with most the browsers is their tab menus when you have multiple tabs open and I have a lot. For instance Maxthon is very annoying as you end having to click an icon then scroll down a large list then click again, its junk. It is best to have all the tabs on one line or done in a way as Sleipnir does. I can use usually one-hundred to two-hundred and sixty six tabs so I know how to push a browser and how I need it functioning, right now Opera is the best for this and my needs. I am not interested in using Palemoon on Linux because I use Crunchbang Live USB mostly and I do not have an install. If I had an installed version of linux then I would most likely use Maxthon linux version because when I last tested it, it was just basically Chrome with a different look but had a decent tab menu that is better than chromes. So I think that Maxthon will be fine to use for multiple tabs and work compared to the dire windows version that struggles with sites and scrolls like a dog. I would be interested in benchmarking Palemoon on Linux compared to the windows version because usually the linux version is much faster. This Iceweasel on Crunchbang is much faster than the usual dull firefox which to be honest I cannot stand, Gecko reminds me too much of the old Opera it seems stale now and I used the old Opera to get away from Firefox and if it was only Palemoon that bought me to firefox because it was faster on the benchmarks and feel than the old Opera. If you cannot feel the speed difference between Opera 20 and Palemoon or any other firefox then there is something wrong with you, Opera is light years ahead in speed especially as you start opening more and more tabs. Firefox is a lame-duck from start to finish and I will tell you this, I've only had one or maybe two browser crashes with the new Opera and that was with the developer version as well, Firefox was regularly crashing. Palemoon seemed to make firefox more reliable. Benchmarks are not meaningless and only those who fear another browser will say such a thing. You are speaking with someone who is open-minded and I have tried multiple browsers and I am disappointed with all of them if the truth is known. I cannot see why anyone would write code that has flaws or cannot be made to the very best it can be. I only wish the old Opera team were not dead now because they might have created another browser by now but that will never happen anymore and I agree Opera has hurt its fanbase dramatically and continue to do so by not listening to any of us and our needs. I personally like their far superior speed dial system it is fast, beautiful and very powerful with multiple sites in one box, love it. Why can they not excel in areas needed? There is no speed dial that comes close to Opera's and that is fact. Now as for extensions I think Gecko sucks, here is one you will not have and thats the Disconnect.search you have the Disconnect but not the new search version well not in the add-ons store. Hows about that Https I have on Opera or the Adguard what about Zenmate VPN? See what I am saying, Chrome is in another league for quality extensions and Opera has a few of them but more designed for Opera and I think this is why they work so well in Opera almost as if they were standard features. One of the things I do not like about Chrome as the extensions feel extensions and clunky. Do not get me wrong, I am not attacking Palemoon x64, I used it for a long time and might again but I just accept superior software when it comes along and I am not a brand name snob, I released myself out of the consumerism type hived mind.

[Moonchild]

I looked around for a quick recent comparison of resource use. Couldn't find any, so I opened up a VM with Windows 7 x64, 4GB of ram to play with, fresh profiles for the browsers tested, and went to 6 websites (6 tabs open). The browser was left to settle after opening the sites for a minute, after which memory and processes were measured.

Process explorer was used to measure memory and number of processes. All browsers tested were x86 (32-bit) versions.

The sites visited (typed in, no searches or other features used to get to the sites to prevent adding pre-rendered pages and history):
http://www.deviantart.com http://www.ebay.com http://www.amazon.com http://www.bbc.co.uk http://www.imdb.com and http://forum.palemoon.org

Results:
Top contender for eating up your resources was Google Chrome (33.0)/Blink at a staggering 356.5MB private bytes and 380 MB working set, with no less than 8 processes

Second on the list was Firefox 28.0/Gecko: 192MB private bytes and 214MB working set using a single process (temporarily adding about 13.5 MB for the plugin container). Observation was that it was considerably slower to load the pages than the other two browsers tested.

Pale Moon 24.4/Gecko came in leanest: 128MB Private bytes and 154MB working set using a single process (temporarily adding about 11.5 MB for the plugin container)

So please, nobody tell me that Chrome is lean. It's not. I also wouldn't dare try to open over 200 tabs in Chrome (even despite the fact that it becomes impossible in the UI because tabs don't scroll). That would be 200 processes running (task switching for that alone would suck up all CPU, probably) at 40-100MB each (8GB-20GB of RAM? om nom nom)...

If you're still hung up on benchmarking and comparing "scores", please read the FAQ about benchmarking.

And 2tuff: please tone it down. You know what I mean.

EDIT: and by the way, about the browser "looking good" or not: Both Firefox and Pale Moon give you access to a very large amount of themes to make the UI look the way you want. So that should never be a limiting factor. Don't like the default theme? Get a new one! https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... te-themes/

[megaman]

Chrome's theme changes are just cosmetic make-up, nothing changes other than paint slapped-on. Gecko's changes are actual customizations that change the UI entirely.

About the benchmarks, here's an example: A computer with an i3 and another with an i7. Both computers load-up Palemoon fast to the visible eye, but i7 is clearly faster overall.
This is what is happening on benchmarks, they can keep going faster but we come across visible limitations.

Edit: I test every DEV version of Opera, and I know what you are talking about, it still is nothing extraordinary really.
I saw Presto load the pages faster than anything I have seen before, but that's just how I saw it.

[Night Wing]

Good to know because I really like the customization "within" the Gecko based Pale Moon browser. The Gecko add-ons are a very nice bonus too.

I am puzzled by your comments because last night when I decided to try Palemoon x64 again I looked through the extensions and I was disappointed by the lack of important and some less important extensions that I get on Opera and what are on Chrome. What I got in place if anything didn't feel as good! So I do not think Gecko is the superior browser for extensions and quality any longer. At one time Gecko was the only one with extensions then Opera and Chrome copied but sucked and now Chrome dominates in my opinion but I am not tunnel visioned and I can move to different systems if I believe they are better, I will not stay with a brand or name just because they were good in the past, its called being open-minded.

A long time ago I tried Chromium and I didn't like it. For instance and I'm only going to give one example since I don't want to type a manuscript.

With the IE Tab V2 (Enhanced) extension for Firefox, it gives me a button where I can put the button where I want to. With Chromium, the chromium equivalent gives me an "unwanted" toolbar, no button. There are other examples, but I'm not going there.

In closing. You think Chromium has better extensions, I don't. I think Firefox has better extensions, you don't. And that is that as they say.

[Night Wing]

Do you honestly think Firefox or even Palemoon look good? Without a nice theme they do not look nice at all and disappoint. I re-installed Palemoon x64 but I was disappointed with the look of icons and extension icons etc compared to Opera 20. I am willing to give Palemoon x64 a try again but the first time I feel any clunky feelings then I will end up on Opera again until something else comes out. I do not like the Chrome browser tab menu style and I did like the Sleipnir version which is nice but needs to be able to be tweaked. Why couldn't Moonchild create a chrome browser that looks different? I've seen chromium based browsers looking different and then there are the lazy ones which do not. Sleipnir has potential but its font is absolute terrible and yet they brag about fonts on their website, it does not come close to Operas. Right now I am using Iceweasel on a live USB of Crunchbang 11 but when I use Windows which is more often I use Opera and then Maxthon for videos.

For me, Pale Moon looks better than Chrome, Chromium, Comodo Dragon, Cool Novo, Iron, etc, etc, etc. I do hope I haven't left out any browser which has curved tabs. The reason I say this, I HATE curved tabs. Pale Moon has classic squared tabs and I don't need an add-on to keep the squared tabs like Firefox will need in version 29. This is why Pale Moon is my default browser because of the things Moonchild has kept which Firefox has deleted. Firefox ESR is my backup browser (for now).

As for Opera, I dislike Opera too. In version 15, the Opera developers deleted the Bookmarks Toolbar. Deleting the Bookmarks Toolbar in ANY browser is an "automatic deal breaker" for me and when Opera did that, I haven't taken a look at Opera since.

[2tuff]

Right now I am using Palemoon x64 to access this site because I found Maxthon would not allow me to access the download area of the Midori site. I decided I will give that browser ago as it looks different to when I last used it, I hope it works out well. I can assure you Moonchild I had 266 tabs open and my Laptop is a HP Pavilion G6 2.5ghz iCore5. I cannot remember how much of the processor was being used etc but I found Opera handled it with ease. There might have a been a little slow down or whatever but by about 233 tabs it was doing really well as usual. It is not often I have that amount of tabs open, I had missed articles during the week so I stacked them up all loaded ready to copy and past onto a wordpress site. I had articles from presstv, bbcnews, telegraph, pcworld, geek, rt and many other news sites. Usually I will play with around 100-106 tabs but saying that recently I started lowering it down and doing then separately instead of all together. Palemoon 32bit portable I tried did not feel smooth like my Opera but it did perform with 100 tabs better than any of the others out there especially better than Maxthon. I do not use Chrome and yes having lots of tabs does not do well on Google Chrome the tabs are dire. I think you will find that the tabs on Opera and Maxthon are as square as you can imagine if you like squaring tabs and both these browsers are Chrome, I cannot remember what Yandex was like. What amazes me is how Microsoft still makes sure a dire browser like Internet Explorer reminds me of how VLC destroys Microsoft's media player. What we need is a proper operating system like the old Amiga had with proper quality developers such as with Amiga OS 4.1 something the NSA dislike as it not designed to be hacked like Windows, reminds me of the Chinese Longsoon Yeelong laptop and its hard to attack Dragon chipsets. Opera has a bookmarks bar again and has done for a while now. There was also an extension created to do the bookmarking too early on. Do not judge a browser based on a first version because it should be quite obvious that at some point a newer version would have more greatness than an old version. Always keep up with versions of software then judge, its the only way.

[2tuff]

I think Opera may have fixed the stable version because I just run a youtube video with 76 other tabs open with webpages running and the video worked fine and my processor was only being eaten up 45% instead of an annoying 86-95%. I will try it later when I have no tabs open and see what happens then. With these 75 tabs running I am using 6-7% of my iCore5 processing power up so that is very nice but shows youtube is still hammering 40% on top but again I need to be fair and empty my tabs and let the browser rest. I am sitting wondering if Privazer cleaner may be removing something from my Opera that may be buckling it up on video somehow, I have not used privazer yet and I have just updated to the brand new Opera 20. I will have to keep an eye on that.

Now for the good news I was going to try to move back over to Palemoon x64 and I've set it up to a reasonable level of what I like. I decided to test it on redtube and open a few tabs with video running and it handled them really well and silky so now I am going to use Palemoon x64 as my second browser especially for video since my processor was taking hardly a hit at all from multiple videos running. So folks I'm waving bye bye to Maxthon and replacing it with Palemoon x64. Maxthon is a poor browser for multiple tab work but it did seem to perform better at running multiple videos than Opera but that was all it was good for, too clunky, jittery and crashes when it struggles. I did try to get Midori to take a look but both the portable and install versions just would not load up and instead crashed which is weird, no problems with any other software and my system is as clean as a whistle every day cleaned with multiple cleaners.

So what has come good of Opera's niggle recently? I am back to working with Palemoon x64 at least for now with the video and the odd non-compatible site. I will see what happens in the future but I will always respect Moonchild for his amazing work on Palemoon x64 which I always used to promote and will again. For me right now if Opera works then it rocks and I'm used to the awesome speeddial and do not miss bookmarks at all but you can have them if you want, I do not, again I like change. Yes definitely impressed again with Palemoon x64 and it loads up nice and fast too, Luna seemed a quick loading browser. Opera comes up faster these days but it is a bit of a coin because it then spends the same time faffing around loading the speeddial etc before giving you true access. One thing I really do like about Palemoon x64 is the great full screen mode where you can see all your tabs unlike other browsers and how it is invisible until you move over the area, very good indeed! To me Opera is just so clean and refreshing, basic looking but silk and as I said clean looking.

[access2godzilla]

I decided to test it on redtube

So these days porn websites have become the testing ground for browsers?