Language switching needlessly complicated

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Wuzzy

Language switching needlessly complicated

Unread post by Wuzzy » 2016-07-27, 18:51

For enabling a different language, there are two methods, one is by using an addon (Zing!).
I think both approaches are needlessly complicated. Changing the language requires an addon? Or it requires to dig deep in about:config? Seriously?
Who else thinks this whole approach is way too complex for a relatively simple task?

Why not simplifying it?

I suggest the following:
- In the add-ons manager, and then in the list of language packs, add a button on each language pack (except for the current language). The button says “Use this language”; clicking it will set general.useragent.locale to the selected language and a notification/request pops out which wants the user to restart the browser (similar to what happens after adding an extension)
- In the language pack list, also add an entry for US English (=no language pack) so the user can switch back to English.
- In the language pack list, add a link to http://www.palemoon.org/langpacks.shtml for convenience
- Additionally, add a drop-down list to select the language in the preferences menu, also allowing to change the language (general.useragent.locale). Why? Because this is where I would expect language settings to be, and not in some weird addon tab. Also it is slightly more convenient. Adding the langpacks links as above might also make sense here
- Finally, make it so that the default for the program language is “system default”, which means the language read from environment variables; if the language pack is already available, that one is used, if not, US English is used. “System default” should also be a selectable entry in the drop-down list
- Deprecate the “Zing” addon as this won't be needed anymore

Just to be clear: This is a suggestion to the core, not doing anything of this in an extension.
Also, I don't suggest this for me (as I already changed the language), but for other users who might be baffled or annoyed by the complex installation instructions. It's about improving overall usability.

Reasons:
- A huge fraction of people speak languages other than English
- Changing the language should be something which is as simple as possible
- My outlined way to handle translations is used in many applications, so it will meet user's expectations and is thus good for usability

By the way, who in this forums agrees with me that this language handling is too complicated?

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eskaton
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Re: Language switching needlessly complicated

Unread post by eskaton » 2016-07-27, 19:02

Version 27 of PM will be English only upon release, and it's up in the air as to how long it will be before the localization/language packs come back. Therefore, it may be a while before your suggestions are able to make it in.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Language switching needlessly complicated

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2016-07-27, 20:02

There already are extensions that do this. However, as said above.. It will be some time before langpacks come back to the fold.. See my post response in the Future of Pale Moon thread you posted in.

riiis
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Re: Language switching needlessly complicated

Unread post by riiis » 2016-07-27, 22:29

Wuzzy wrote:Also, I don't suggest this for me (as I already changed the language),...
I'm not sure what the problem is that your proposed solution is addressing.

If you're trying to change the interface language from English, once and for all, first install the Zing add-on (only from the Pale Moon add-on site, not from AMO). Zing is a "No Restart" extension. The Zing toolbar button should appear on the toolbar, already good-to-go. Click the Zing toolbar button and then download and install and select the appropriate language pact from the Pale Moon website. Then restart Pale Moon. If all is well, the Pale Moon UI should have changed to that of the selected language pact. If Zing is no longer needed, you can now disable Zing in the Add-On Manager tab.

To change the preferred languages for the content of webpages, go to Pale Moon Options. Then select the Content pane. To change the language for the spell-checker, go to the Mozilla link at the bottom of the download page you used for Pale Moon language pacts.

If you want to use additional languages, or often switch to/from English, just enable Zing when needed (restarting Pale Moon is not needed), and download additional language pacts as needed.

jumba

Re: Language switching needlessly complicated

Unread post by jumba » 2016-07-28, 16:33

I have posted some suggestions about language pack management over here (including links to other peoples suggestions):
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7394

But since PM is dropping support for language packs, they are all invalid.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Language switching needlessly complicated

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2016-07-28, 17:20

What you need to understand is that with Tycho... we have no language packs to fall back on.. The ones from Mozilla would not be applicable due to the fact the entire Pale Moon specific code is not in any way shape or form based on the native Firefox version the new codebase is forked from.. We would have to create all new language packs from scratch based on the in-tree en-US one that is bundled with the browser.

So we are NOT intending to drop langpacks forever or anything.. But they will not be initially available when Tycho becomes Pale Moon 27.. We are continuing to evaluate possibilities for how we can effectively create and manage langpacks for the future beyond doing everything completely manually.. Every langpack has thousands of strings and there is no basis to work from except en-US..

As I have stated elsewhere when they come back, and I remind you it is our intention to bring them back, it will likely be the core/major languages only. OF COURSE if you want to translate thousands of strings manually to add to that collection when we get an initial offering out there.. I am sure it will be much appreciated and accepted. But even one langpack is QUITE the commitment.. 30-60 times thousands of strings is bloody insane for a small team to deal with without some sort of cooperative system managing them.

As well stated elsewhere.. For the time being and for Tycho releases.. PLEASE disable/remove the langpack because even one missing string in the right place can leave you with an unusable program.

jumba

Re: Language switching needlessly complicated

Unread post by jumba » 2016-07-28, 20:31

Thanks for explaining Tobin! I see, Tycho will not have supported language packs and we will hopefully see them some time again.

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