f3 search/find bar Topic is solved

[soewhaty]

It would be better if pressing f3 ALWAYS brought you the search bar and highlighted the search term currently entered. As it is now, only when no search term is entered, does f3 bring up the search bar and puts my cursor there, waiting for me to type. I'd like this a bit changed.

What I don't like with the current way things are is that if a search term is entered and, say 5 hits are found, and then the search bar is closed, then pressing f3 does NOT bring up the search bar but instead keeps on looping thru the 5 found hits of the previously entered search term. That is irritating cos what if I closed the search bar long ago and now simply pressing f3 loops me thru some old search and it doesn't even bring up the search bar to show me what the search term is so I end up looping thru some old and unknown search. What would be better, IMO, is that when I enter a search term and get 5 hits for it and then close it (either by Esc or pressing 'x') I then want to be able to hit f3 and that should bring up again the search bar and highlight the search term. That would be much better cos this way I can directly start typing in a new search or I, if I so wish, I can just continue pressing f3 to loop thru the old search term.

Chrome has it this way. I don't use Chrome any more, but the search functionality there is better than PM's.

Of course, the solution to my whole complaint is easy - just use ctrl+F instead of f3. But doing it with f3 is WAY better, because with f3 we can (1) bring up the search bar and enter stuff directly, and (2) loop through the found hits. That's why I find my suggestion to be better than the way things are right now.

It's really annoying when you've closed the search bar long but there is still some remaining search term in it and you press f3 and it simply loops you thru it. I don't want that. That's the reason I closed the search bar .. cos I no longer want to be in that search. If I still wanted to be in that search I wouldn't have closed it. Alright, fine. Let's say that it is ok to close the search bar and the last entered search term stays there. Maybe that's not too bad. But at least when the search bar is closed and then I press f3, let that reopen the search bar and show my what search term it contains or allow me to type if I want a new search term.

[Moonchild]

Established behavior that is common to most applications:
F3 is "search again".
Ctrl+F is "search".

(additionally you can use '/' to quicksearch, which seems to be what you're looking for here)

This is expected behavior (expectance: previously established common behavior).

You are confusing the search hotkeys here.
F3 only brings up the search bar if you previously didn't search, because there is nothing to search for.

Perhaps you can find an extension to remap the hotkeys as you prefer, but I won't change the current behavior.

[soewhaty]

Sure, np! Thanks for the reply. I just find it irritating and I explained very well why. It is simply not straightforward and if you do it as I suggest it is so much more powerful, quicker, and easier to search. Or at least give us the option to chose which way we want it.

Here. I'll just give a suggestion, nothing more:
I don't understand how this makes any sense - I enter a search term and then close the search bar. Search term stays there. 3 hours later I press f3 and no search bar shows up. Instead I am being looped thru a blind search. Blind cos the search bar did not pop up to tell me what the search term is. I don't find this behaviour logical at all. What you can at least do is that pressing f3, when a search term is already in the search bar, would pop-up the search bar again and highlight that term so that ppl can decide if then wanna continue f3-ing with that old search term or if they instead want to change that search term with sth else. Freedom of choice is a good thing. I don't see how performing a blind search is good. Why would I have to do 2 things, i.e. pressing ctrl+f to bring up the search bar and enter my term and then pressing f3 to loop thru hits, instead of doing only 1 thing - hitting f3 which would simultaneously [1] bring up the search bar, [2] highlight the current search term (which gives me the freedom to change it or not) and then [3] again with the very same f3 key I start looping thru hits. Honestly, this make a lot more sense.

PS - if you insist on never changing this or never giving us an option so that we decide which way to have it then I might as well ask if you know of an add-on that does that.

[Moonchild]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my initial reply.

"3 hours later you press F3" -- meaning 3 hours later you want to "search again for the same term you entered before". Whether you may have forgotten what you searched for before doesn't matter; you should instruct the browser to search for something new (by pressing Ctrl+F, or using '/' for quick find).

Sorry but this is your wrong use. You're trying to use "search again" as "search for a new term".
Changing this expected behavior for everyone else is a bad idea.
If you insist you want to remap common keys for your different personal workflow, use an extension! They are available for a reason

[soewhaty]

I LOVE your browser. This is why I'm only suggesting how to make it better. No offense, don't take anything personal

3h later was just an example ... it could be 15 minutes later, 5 minutes later ... etc. And you clearly didn't understand the example, because I said '3 hours later I press f3 and no search bar shows up. Instead I am being looped thru a blind search.' That would mean - 3h (or 15min or whatever) later I desire to press a single key, f3, and I want it to allow me to search with my awareness of what's being searched. Instead of doing that the current PM brings up no search bar and just starts a blind search . I don't find this behaviour logical at all.

Most of us perform a search and then start looping thru the results. U do, too. Don't u see how useful it will be the use 1 single key for all that - f3. Here's how it COULD work if u desire to ever change it - i press f3, search bar pops up [regardless of whether or not a search term is contained in the search bar] and allows me to type a search term directly. I type my search term and again with the very same f3 key I start looping thru the found hits. I then press Esc to remove the search bar and gain some screen real estate. 10 min later I want to run another search (or the same as the old one, it doesn't really matter) and I press the f3 key. In case I wanted to run the old search again I simply keep on pressing f3. See ... simplicity and ease. In case I DIDNT want to perform the same search then that's ok too because (unlike it is now) the f3 would bring up the search bar, highlight the contained search term and then I'd be able to type in my new search term and ... again with the very same f3 key I'd be able to start looping thru that new search. I find that extremely simple and don't see why currently f3 ONLY brings up the s.bar when no term is entered. I have to press Ctrl+F .. type, then f3 to loop, then Esc to free my screen, then I press f3 again but OH wait it starts searching for something that I don't even know what it is ... cos it's blind ... no search bar shows up. Hm .. ok let's press Ctrl+F then ... aaaah there it is, the search bar pops up and NOW I can change the search term ... why not save the users this hassle?

You're not being asked to change the current behaviour of f3. My suggestion maintains your current use of f3 performing 'search again'. However, my idea only extends the power of f3 to now being able to bring up the s.bar and allow us to decide - do I want the same search or hmmm do I want to type a new one.

Sorry, but I was very clear in my last post and I showed very clearly how much better the search function could be done. As I mentioned, the way I'm suggesting is the way Chrome has it last I tried it. Don't worry. I'm not gonna switch to Chrome, it's a big-brother rootkit browser. I LOVE your browser, just don't understand why you don't wanna improve it further. Why press different keys? Why bother? Why not make it as simple as possible. 1 simple key .. f3 can do everything you want ...

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Because standard conventions. Breaking those would not make things easier.

[soewhaty]

Riiiiiiiight .... nice one there! So if the standard convention is wrong, let's keep things wrong, huh? Maybe we should not have changed our idea that Earth is flat either, eh? Just cos it was the convention we should never have changed our thinking that it is round, eh?

I think I explained very well how things are made easier with the suggested improvement, but let it be then ...

[New Tobin Paradigm]

If Standard Conventions are wrong then we move to what is consistent. If that proves to be insane we then go deeper in considering changing something which will involve the community. For example the selecting text issue with and without the trailing space.

Deciding to change or not change something is by no means an arbitrary decision process and we have to think of more than a handful of users.

[soewhaty]

I'm sorry! You have a point! However, I do think that many, not only a handful, will find my suggestion extremely helpful, but if you do not think that's the case then let it be ... As I said, my solution does not change the status quo, it only improves it by making it easier for users to search. I thought you guys would quite appreciate that. My suggestion changes nothing to the current way PM operates, it only builds on top of what f3 currently does. So if you implemented my suggestion I don't see how anyone would be hurt. On the contrary, users will only find it that much easier to search with the new and improved functionality of f3.

I rest my case and thank both of you for the replies. Keep up the good work. Your browser is awesome, I only tried to make a suggestion as to how to make it even more awesome! ))))

[Moonchild]

You're not being asked to change the current behaviour of f3. My suggestion maintains your current use of f3 performing 'search again'. However, my idea only extends the power of f3 to now being able to bring up the s.bar and allow us to decide - do I want the same search or hmmm do I want to type a new one.

Just to add since it doesn't seem to be clear:
You are asking us to change the behavior of F3. F3 means "search this term again" which does not involve any UI. Look at other applications that have a "search again" function - it will not pop up the search box again when you call the 'again" function. Standard Conventions are "established presentation/behavior in a large number of applications". What we currently do is just that. Changing that would be a mistake.

Also, as regards the time passed: Pale Moon cannot possibly know (nor should it ever assume to know) after how much time passed you have "forgotten your search term". Crystal balls and all that

The issue is that you've taken what is a convenience function (trigger the initial search when there is no term yet, instead of not doing anything) and assuming it to be the main function of that key.

[soewhaty]

OK, fine ... let's say I AM asking you to change the behaviour. But mate, it has nothing to do with time. (I mentioned time just as an example) It could be 2 seconds after I pressed Esc that I want to press f3 again in order to search. And as we know, doing that will only 'search existing term again' i.e. the old term. Fine, got it You want your f3 to ONLY search that and what I am suggesting is that f3 does that + brings up the s.bar + highlights the search term and then that allows me either to f3 further on with the existing search term or just type sth new. I've explained that already plenty of times and I do find it very, very handy, quick and powerful and I do not see how anyone would not find it very, very handy, quick and powerful as a shortcut.

And I don't think I've done what you suggest in bold. I think I just used Chrome some time ago and f3 did there exactly what I want. Therefore I found it extremely powerful and useful. I only wanted to suggest sth nice for your otherwise really cool browser. That's all. Let it be then ...

[soewhaty]

Sorry @Matt A Tobin and @Moonchild but with all due respect to both of you and with all my love to PM I just happened to check and noticed that not only Chrome but also Mozilla FF uses f3 exactly the way I suggest you to make PM use f3. Did it never occurr to you during this whole discussion of ours that maybe, just maybe, there is a reason why the 2 biggest browser companies in the world are using the f3 key in that certain way and maybe that's actually a good practice? I wonder ...

[Moonchild]

Mozilla isn't one of the two largest any longer. Also, Mozilla has been adopting many things from Chrome, this is no doubt another one of those things.
If you want to compare browsers, then also look at what MSIE does. It doesn't even search for next, F3 just brings up the search bar (similar to our Ctrl+F) so both do exactly the same in that one, and you can't "search again" using F3 in MSIE.

And with all due respect, please re-read what has been written earlier in this thread about expected behavior, not just across browsers, but across all applications that have a search function. Also keep in mind that "just because others do it that way" we should do it too - that's a pitfall that makes alternatives to software pointless, since they would all do the same anyway. To us, it is more logical to have the current behavior. You're free to disagree but this suggestion thread has been closed for a reason.